View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #201
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    public sector unions do not raise standard of living for millions, they create no market for industry, and we are talking about state government.. production doesn't enter into the equation as the don't produce anything.

    Proof that public sector unions didn't raise the standard of living for millions?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #202
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    public sector unions do not raise standard of living for millions, they create no market for industry, and we are talking about state government.. production doesn't enter into the equation as the don't produce anything.
    Of course they do. That's absurd. They make roads, they create educated future generations, they keep cities safe, they put out fires, they keep people healthy, the help preserve competitive and honest markets, etc... If you want to see what life is like without government workers, go check out Somalia.

    And, more generally, the more power unions have, the higher compensation is for all people. Where the right to bargain collectively is strong, even non-unionized companies know that if they mistreat their employees too harshly, they might unionize.

    Beginning of the End for Public Unions?-unionincome-jpg
    Last edited by teamosil; 06-10-12 at 02:24 AM.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  3. #203
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "History is a great teacher. Now everyone knows that the labor movement did not diminish the strength of the nation but enlarged it. By raising the living standards of millions, labor miraculously created a market for industry and lifted the whole nation to undreamed of levels of production. Those who attack labor forget these simple truths, but history remembers them."

    Martin Luther King Jr.
    I don't think anyone that knows thier history would deny that unions were a big help in getting the rights we have now in regards to safety and a decent wage. But then again we are not talking about the unions that were around back in Martin's day. The unions that were around then and the unions that are around now adays are totally different creatures. They may act the same. But they are NOT the same.

    Also most of us are talking about PUBLIC unions. NOT private unions. I personally have no beef with private unions. My beef is with public unions.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  4. #204
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Proof that public sector unions didn't raise the standard of living for millions?
    sorry, it's very difficult to prove a negative... you should know that before asking.

  5. #205
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I don't think anyone that knows thier history would deny that unions were a big help in getting the rights we have now in regards to safety and a decent wage. But then again we are not talking about the unions that were around back in Martin's day. The unions that were around then and the unions that are around now adays are totally different creatures. They may act the same. But they are NOT the same.

    Also most of us are talking about PUBLIC unions. NOT private unions. I personally have no beef with private unions. My beef is with public unions.
    Yeah, the Chinese do just fine without public unions today, right? The middle class standard of living people have become accustomed to in this country is far too opulent!

    "The emergence of public sector bargaining helped government workers make up much of the pay gap that had developed between them and private sector workers. As a result, millions of public employees were brought into the middle class."
    Collective bargaining by unions is a key part of democracy - Morning Call
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Of course they do. That's absurd. They make roads, they create educated future generations, they keep cities safe, they put out fires, they keep people healthy, the help preserve competitive and honest markets, etc... If you want to see what life is like without government workers, go check out Somalia.

    And, more generally, the more power unions have, the higher compensation is for all people. Where the right to bargain collectively is strong, even non-unionized companies know that if they mistreat their employees too harshly, they might unionize.

    Beginning of the End for Public Unions?-unionincome-jpg
    I don't equate production with services, sorry.

    even in the private sector, there are professions who do not produce.
    note that i'm stating that many of those services are not necessary or undesirable... just that they do not produce anything tangible ( road crews may be an exception , though)


    can you provide evidence of me saying anything about wanting to get rid of government employees or wanting to move to Somalia?... if not, keep your idiot strawmen
    to yourself.

  7. #207
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yeah, the Chinese do just fine without public unions today, right? The middle class standard of living people have become accustomed to in this country is far too opulent!
    China is a socialist country. Far different than what we have here in the States. So apples and oranges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "The emergence of public sector bargaining helped government workers make up much of the pay gap that had developed between them and private sector workers. As a result, millions of public employees were brought into the middle class."
    Collective bargaining by unions is a key part of democracy - Morning Call
    You're still stuck in the past. As I already stated, unions use to be a good thing. Not anymore.

    Also your link is from the opinion page of that news site.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  8. #208
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    China is a socialist country. Far different than what we have here in the States. So apples and oranges.
    Pick any country without public unions and compare the standard of living. Or, look at how they have increased the standard of living and working conditions for public employees here in this country.



    You're still stuck in the past. As I already stated, unions use to be a good thing. Not anymore.

    Also your link is from the opinion page of that news site.
    As a opposed to the opinion of an anonymous internet dude?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #209
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Pick any country without public unions and compare the standard of living. Or, look at how they have increased the standard of living and working conditions for public employees here in this country.
    There is no country like the US so it would be a waste of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As a opposed to the opinion of an anonymous internet dude?
    I wasn't trying to pass things off as fact. You were.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  10. #210
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    There is no country like the US so it would be a waste of time.
    Then examine our own history of how public unions increased the standard of living and working conditions for public employees closer to that of the private sector.


    I wasn't trying to pass things off as fact. You were.
    You tried to refute it with your opinion is if it were fact. I fail to see the difference.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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