View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #1181
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Read the ****ing bill if you want to discuss this. I am tired of your ignorant suppositions about something you know nothing about.
    I am not interested in debating this topic. I got better things to do.

    I criticized your black and white view of outsourcing. You are completly ignoring any negative effects that could come from the bill, and I pointed that out. If you took it into account, I wouldn't comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Who the **** said anything about banning outsourcing. The bill is about not giving them a ****ing tax break for doing it!
    You obviously like cursing. I was just pointing out that your view is flawed. Other countries have outsourcing problems as well, and unemployment is not caused by outsourcing.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    That data is from 1999. Most of those states has seen considerably improvement since 1999. I will just take their ACT ranking and add it with their SAT ranking and divide it

    South Carolina 45

    North Carolina 30.5

    Georgia 42.5

    Texas 40

    Virginia 23.5

    If banning collective barganing for teahcers is so bad, why have all of the states seen massive improvements in their SAT/ACT rankings?
    Kind of miss my point. I was less concerned with the test scores than the how many are in unions. Frankly, data on test scores would beg a lot of questions either way. I doubt would could prove unions or lack of unions actually meant anything in terms of test scores. However, what I'm seeking is to verify CP's claim concerning the size and scope of unions in education.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yeah, I've seen this stuff before, I remember when the unionista's brought it out during the Wisconsin thing.

    Here's something interesting though: it turns out that when you have a large number of hispanic immigrants, it drags down your state-wide scores. Who knew?



    Gosh, that's interesting.
    I see you miss the point as well. I'm trying to confirm or deny your size and scope claim you make concerning unions.

    First I said this to you:
    As most here do not belong to a union (though teachers in schools with a union do better), I would love to see national numbers.
    Then I said this:

    I'm still trying to find national numbers CP, but here are states that don't even have a union. Are they overwhelmingly unionized?
    And then this:
    Still looking.

    It wasn't about the scores. Though interesting, when I spoke, I trying to get you to the point.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    If banning collective barganing for teahcers is so bad, why have all of the states seen massive improvements in their SAT/ACT rankings?
    You have the same problem those claiming unions are better. You don't have the factors involved any more than they do. Nor do I know how long unions have been banned or what other efforts have been used to help improve. Both sides should be careful of causal relationship errors.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #1185
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    I am not interested in debating this topic. I got better things to do.
    Then quit trying to discuss something you know nothing about.

    Its not about outsourcing, its about tax breaks for outsourcing.
    Last edited by Catawba; 06-18-12 at 02:58 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Then get off the thread and quit trying to discuss something you know nothing about.

    Its not about outsourcing, its about tax breaks for outsourcing.
    Lets see if follow..

    First you said: "Then get off the thread and quit trying to discuss something you know nothing about."

    Then right after that you said: "Its not about outsourcing, its about tax breaks for outsourcing."


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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Then quit trying to discuss something you know nothing about.

    Its not about outsourcing, its about tax breaks for outsourcing.
    I am not discussing the topic. Cpwill cited a source talking about the negative unintended consquences of the bill. You never responded to that, hence I asked you what is the point of punishing outsourcing if it hurts the economy more than it helps?

    I am just criticizing your black and white view of outsourcing.

  8. #1188
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I asked how outsourcing US jobs have helped the working class, not how it has helped the wealthy?
    yes and I keep answering you? apparently you have reading comprehension issues?

    Competing with $20 dollar a day jobs in China, does not "maximize" the working class "competitive advantage."
    Sure it does. Crappy jobs leave, better jobs come over. The only place where your critique has actual structural support is in the unionized labor fields, where companies fled artificially high labor costs. That' why GM expanded into Mexico, but Toyota expanded into the US.

    They have the least to live with because of the outsourcing and reduction of pay of their jobs. But your argument is despite statistics, the working class is doing better? I think you forgot to tell them that.
    no need - I'm an E-5 in the military. My income hasn't exactly been that of the 1% .

    And when is this supposed to kick in? Because I have not noticed that trend over the last decade.
    NAFTA went into effect in 1994. According to the BLS, unemployment from 1960 through 1994 averaged a little over 6.15%. Unemployment from 1995 through 2007 (before the current crash) averaged 4.99%.

    No one has said anything about trade wars. We were talking about ending tax breaks for outsourcing US jobs, that the GOP supports and the Democrats oppose.
    That is incorrect on two fronts - 1. Democrats crossed ranks to stand with the GOP in defeating this idiotic measure and 2. You aren't talking about "ending tax breaks for outsourcing", there is no "congratulations, you outsourced" tax break. This was a measure designed to increase taxes upon businesses that do business overseas. Because foreigners are icky.
    Last edited by cpwill; 06-18-12 at 03:18 AM.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Lets see if follow..

    First you said: "Then get off the thread and quit trying to discuss something you know nothing about."

    Then right after that you said: "Its not about outsourcing, its about tax breaks for outsourcing."
    Yeah. And he did it on a forum about public unions. Whose jobs can't be outsourced.




    All-together, though, I have to say I'm pleased with this thread. Not a single person thus far has offered a reasonable path forward for public unions to regain their slipping power and prestige.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yeah. And he did it on a forum about public unions. Whose jobs can't be outsourced.




    All-together, though, I have to say I'm pleased with this thread. Not a single person thus far has offered a reasonable path forward for public unions to regain their slipping power and prestige.
    I don't think you've paid attention. That was done rather early on. Blinders are really a hinderence, so I would advise you remove them.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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