View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
73. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #1041
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Who is saying that public unions destroyed the economy? We're just saying that they are wrecking State and Local governments' fiscs.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Dumbest thing I have read for a long time.

    People tend to say Republicans are stupid, but this dumb cartoon is proof that many Democrats are stupid as well. First off, none of them has anything to do with why people dislike teachers unions, and secondly Republicans have never accused teachers unions for causing the crisis. So this guy used hours making a cartoon that is not even relevant.

    I guess it doesn't matter when you only want to appeal to dumb democrats.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Dumbest thing I have read for a long time.

    People tend to say Republicans are stupid, but this dumb cartoon is proof that many Democrats are stupid as well. First off, none of them has anything to do with why people dislike teachers unions, and secondly Republicans have never accused teachers unions for causing the crisis. So this guy used hours making a cartoon that is not even relevant.

    I guess it doesn't matter when you only want to appeal to dumb democrats.

    You have used many of these reasons yourself!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #1045
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Wait, so if I haven't convinced you, then I have lost the debate.

    Who has a big ego again? I am just pointing out that you refuses to even answer the flaws I pointed out in his research, and you keep being unable to understand that our aims are different. Or maybe you do understand, but trying to misunderstand is the only argument you got left.
    In you last few posts, you spend more time attacking me personally than you do defending your position. How does that give credibility to your position?

    Dr. Lafer and the studies he cites compare workers of like categories in union and non-union states. When they do that, they find that the unionized states worker of similar kind makes $1500 more than the non unionized worker of the same kind.

    I call that excellent research.

    You call it flawed.

    Lafer compares a middle aged female high school educated secretary with ten years experience in a metropolitan area in a unionized state with a middle aged female high school educated secretary with ten years experience in a metropolitan area in a non unionized state and discovers the unionized state worker makes $1500 more. The study he uses makes 40 such comparisons adjusting for these real world factors.

    He is comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges. You want to compare apples to cinderblocks.

    I do not see how you can defend shorthand studies, slipshod research and fly-by-night comparisons that fail to make such adjustments.
    Last edited by haymarket; 06-14-12 at 07:31 AM.
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    my property rights don't interfere with your valid rights in any way Not allowing others to take what I have is not an infringement on their rights
    Do you have a quote from me where I said otherwise?

    I have no idea what this statement is suppose to refute.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Dumbest thing I have read for a long time.

    People tend to say Republicans are stupid, but this dumb cartoon is proof that many Democrats are stupid as well. First off, none of them has anything to do with why people dislike teachers unions, and secondly Republicans have never accused teachers unions for causing the crisis. So this guy used hours making a cartoon that is not even relevant.

    I guess it doesn't matter when you only want to appeal to dumb democrats.
    You obviously do not approve of seeing your own intellectual prejudices exposed and made fun of in this manner. Thats okay. Few do.

    The cartoon contains much truth that I have seen displayed over and over and over again through many years by those who bash both public education and the men and women who are professional educators in public education. It is an excellent cartoon and does a fine job at getting the point across.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You have used many of these reasons yourself!
    Lets see
    10. Nope
    9. Never said teacher vacations caused the economic crisis.
    8. Nope
    7. I didn't mention finance. I mentioned poor people. And again, I didn't link it to economic crisis.
    6. Nope
    5. Certainly not. It is actually the opposite.
    4. Nope
    3. Nope
    2. Nope
    1. Nope

    So another dishonest, dumb comment from Catawba. What you didn't talk about is why it is relevant.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You have used many of these reasons yourself!
    what an interesting claim. can you support it?

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    LOL! Start here - but there's plenty more.
    Inaugural Article: The evolution of lethal intergroup violence
    This is hilarious. You have cited an article that demonstrates my position.

    ...These data provide grounds for evaluating Wrangham's preliminary conclusion that “current evidence supports the hypothesis that selection has favored a hunt and kill propensity in chimpanzees and humans, and that coalitional killing has a long history in the evolution of both species” (ref. 6, p. 1).

    The crux of Wrangham's explanation of the evolution of coalitionary killing is that fitness is closely correlated with access to food resources and that territorial enlargement thus enhances fitness. In short, “fitness is correlated with territory size” (other factors being equal) (ref. 6, p. 15). Unprovoked attacks on members of a neighboring community thus convey a selective advantage, provided that the costs to the attackers are low. The mechanism by which aggression is rewarded is intercommunity dominance. “If raiding leads to the wounding or death of a neighboring male, the neighboring community's competitive ability is substantially reduced” (ref. 6, p. 15). The dominant community can thus freely encroach on the territory of its neighbor whenever food resources within its own territory are in short supply. The dominant community also may have an advantage in recruiting reproductive females. However, the capacity to translate additional females into increased fitness would be contingent on the commensurate expansion of food resources.† Thus, although intercommunity dominance “tends to lead to increased fitness of the killers through improved access to resources such as food, females, or safety” (ref. 6, p. 12), territorial gain is the critical ingredient for the realization of this fitness enhancement....

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