View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #1031
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    In your hypothetical little world it would be my civic duty to die for the sake of the well owner's property rights - or become his slave if I wanted to live.
    Civic duty? What part of you're not in society did you not get?

    Regardless, I was just having fun with your absurd example of being stuck out in the middle of the desert and some random guy owns a well.

  2. #1032
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    No, I said they defended from use by others.

    I know in your little world where everything MUST BE property that there is no other result than for you to say they claimed it because they stopped others from using it.
    That is what it means, lol.

    I don't know about the Indians and their LEGAL claims to land.
    Legal claims? Who said anything about legal claims? You?

    Europeans "took" land from all over the world because in many instances the cultures they took the land from had no real concept of property rights. So the Europeans assumed there was no ownership and claimed the "unowned" land for their own.
    So that is why the Indians fought for their land. Hey dead Hopi, you did it wrong! You were apparently not doing what you were!

    I have no clue what you're going on about here.
    Animals and their claims?? Ants are a beautiful example of it.
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-13-12 at 07:13 PM.

  3. #1033
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I get your 'context'.

    And I get your goals.

    And I get which side you are on.

    You come across loud and clear.
    I am on the side of fiscal survival. I would rather not violate contracts, but if it it comes down to fire departments or COLA increases, government's primary duty is to the citizenry, not it's employees.

    I look at the views you push as no different than a rabble rouser standing outside myself giving directions to people to loot my house of everything I worked for simply because they do nto ant me to have it and they feel they need it more. I know how I would deal with such a person and I suspect you would deal with them exactly the same way.
    well. now you know how Turtledude feels .

    I told you in a post this morning that I would indeed answer your question in detai later today. And I intend to do that.
    looking forward to it.

  4. #1034
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That is what it means, lol.
    Yes, I'm aware of the legal principles. LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Legal claims? Who said anything about legal claims? You?
    No, you're the one that keeps bringing up American Indians and you've been doing it for pages on end. I assumed, since it was you, it was some legal claim. If it isn't a legal claim then I have no clue what you're going on - and on - about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So that is why the Indians fought for their land. Hey dead Hopi, you did it wrong! You were apparently not doing what you were!
    Back to the American Indians again!!!! LOL!

    Do you believe there were never any other tribes in the world - or anywhere else in time???

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Animals and their claims?? Ants are a beautiful example of it.
    Like I said - your beliefs are obviously the ONE TRUE BELIEF. I don't argue religion so we're done.


    /conversation
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-13-12 at 07:24 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  5. #1035
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Yes, I'm aware of the legal principles. LOL!
    It doesn't matter what they are. We are talking about OUTSIDE of the government/modern society.

    No, you're the one that keeps bringing up American Indians and you've been doing it for pages on end. I assumed, since it was you, it was some legal claim. If it isn't a legal claim then I have no clue what you're going on - and on - about.

    Back to the American Indians again!!!! LOL!
    Who in the hell did we steal land from then? Were you just saying I lied for no reason what so ever?

    Do you believe there were never any other tribes in the world - or anywhere else in time???
    Why does that matter? You are looking for an example outside of modern society and the Hopi work wonderfully.

    Like I said - your beliefs are obviously the ONE TRUE BELIEF. I don't argue religion so we're done.
    Religion? Are you aware of the behavior of animals in the wild? Have you ever actually looked into it?

    /conversation
    I accept your defeat, I guess.
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-13-12 at 07:32 PM.

  6. #1036
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What you seem to be unwiling to accept is that I have considered your argument and compared it with the data from Lafer and I have concluded that Dr. Lafer makes a far more compelling case based on a far more thorough and detailed presentation of data that you have done.

    Perhaps your ego does not allow that reality to sink in?

    You are like a chid you keeps crying "but I want it I want it I want it" and will not take NO for an answer. Which is your right. But it is also mine to examine the evidence and conclude that the Dr. Lafer evidence is accurate and far more compelling that your objections to it.
    Wait, so if I haven't convinced you, then I have lost the debate.

    Who has a big ego again? I am just pointing out that you refuses to even answer the flaws I pointed out in his research, and you keep being unable to understand that our aims are different. Or maybe you do understand, but trying to misunderstand is the only argument you got left.

  7. #1037
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Religion? Are you aware of the behavior of animals in the wild? Have you ever actually looked into it?
    The way you see "property rights" is very similar to the way many people see God. To devout Christians God is everywhere and provides all. These people not only say such things by rote or because it's expected of them, they actually believe it and see it in the simple, everyday things all around them. When they eat they pray and truly thank God for the food. When unexplained things happen it is God's Will. You and your religion of Property Rights is no different.

    Yes.

    Assuming that "it" is "the way animals behave in the wild" - yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I accept your defeat, I guess.
    Thank you for the lesson.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #1038
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The way you see "property rights" is very similar to the way many people see God. To devout Christians God is everywhere and provides all. These people not only say such things by rote or because it's expected of them, they actually believe it and see it in the simple, everyday things all around them. When they eat they pray and truly thank God for the food. When unexplained things happen it is God's Will. You and your religion of Property Rights is no different.
    Hmm...

    Yes.

    Assuming that "it" is "the way animals behave in the wild" - yes.
    I noticed you never really explained to me what animals do when they show similar behavior patterns except saying its my religion that is making me see it. That doesn't really seem like an argument, sorry. Just like you never really explained to me why Indians would fight for something they didn't take claim of. Its a bit, how can I say, weak.

    Thank you for the lesson.
    You're welcome??

  9. #1039
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Property rights are rights. They are important rights. All rights people have are important rights. Property rights are not elevated above all else or at the expense of all else.
    my property rights don't interfere with your valid rights in any way Not allowing others to take what I have is not an infringement on their rights

  10. #1040
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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