View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #1021
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What you said above is not slavery.
    Yes, being forced to do whatever the well owner desires is very much slavery. Again, unless you consider dying an "option".
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    So people that have second homes or whatever renounce their claims to the land because they don't occupy it? That's interesting.
    In your scenario what I got from it is that the Indians left for good and renounced their claims. If you meant they left for the day or something similar that changes it since the claims have not changed.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Yes, being forced to do whatever the well owner desires is very much slavery. Again, unless you consider dying an "option".
    You have free will to not accept their orders if that is what you decide and no dying is not a given if you decide such.

  4. #1024
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You have free will to not accept their orders if that is what you decide and no dying is not a given if you decide such.
    In the desert with the only source of water being that well then of course dying is a given. Even you can't be that dense.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-13-12 at 05:35 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  5. #1025
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    In your scenario what I got from it is that the Indians left for good and renounced their claims. If you meant they left for the day or something similar that changes it since the claims have not changed.
    I never said they renounced or even claimed any land at all. Tribes (and, no, this is not necessarily about American Indians) did migrate from place to place. It wasn't just for a "day or something similar". Sometimes they wouldn't return to an area for more than a year. (Sometimes they never returned.) Maybe while they were gone another tribe used the area - and so what? If they came back and another tribe was there they went somewhere else. Not everything over all of time was controlled by property rights.

    There is nothing innate or natural about property rights. Property rights are man-made constructs.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-13-12 at 05:38 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Why do you think the amendments would of never came into being without the idea of self ownership? Is it perhaps that they are connected? Isn't this all but too obvious?
    No - it is not. And you are doing a really really really bad job of putting such a concept forward.
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    In the desert with the only source of water being that well then of course dying is a given. Even you can't be that dense.
    Wait, we are talking about the desert? Don't you believe that property rights don't exist? Why don't you just take the well? I mean you aren't in society and property rights are bull****, right?

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I never said they renounced or even claimed any land at all.
    The problem is you did say they claimed land.

    Tribes (and, no, this is not necessarily about American Indians) did migrate from place to place. It wasn't just for a "day or something similar". Sometimes they wouldn't return to an area for more than a year. (Sometimes they never returned.) Maybe while they were gone another tribe used the area - and so what? If they came back and another tribe was there they went somewhere else. Not everything over all of time was controlled by property rights.
    So they didn't fight for it? Hmm..well that is a decision they could make. Still, your statement seems odd considering what you said earlier to me. Who exactly did we take land from if it not the Indians? Are the Indians today that claim their land was stolen are they telling tall tales? Were all those Indians that died fighting for their land imaginary? For example, did the Hopi never fight for their land like the history books tell?

    There is nothing innate or natural about property rights. Property rights are man-made constructs.
    I will be sure to tell animals they are doing it wrong. Hey ants! You're doing it wrong!
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-13-12 at 07:00 PM.

  9. #1029
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Wait, we are talking about the desert? Don't you believe that property rights don't exist? Why don't you just take the well? I mean you aren't in society and property rights are bull****, right?
    In your hypothetical little world it would be my civic duty to die for the sake of the well owner's property rights - or become his slave if I wanted to live.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #1030
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The problem is you did say they claimed land.
    No, I said they defended from use by others.

    I know in your little world where everything MUST BE property that there is no other result than for you to say they claimed it because they stopped others from using it. That does not make it the ONE TRUE BELIEF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So they didn't fight for it? Hmm..well that is a decision they could make. Still, your statement seems odd considering what you said earlier to me. Who exactly did we take land from if it not the Indians? Are the Indians today that claim their land was stolen are they telling tall tales? Were all those Indians that died fighting for their land imaginary? For example, did the Hopi never fight for their land like the history books tell?
    I don't know about the Indians and their LEGAL claims to land.

    Europeans "took" land from all over the world because in many instances the cultures they took the land from had no real concept of property rights. So the Europeans assumed there was no ownership and claimed the "unowned" land for their own. Many indigenous people were willing to share the land and it's bounty but that wasn't enough for the Europeans, who only believed in ownership. They couldn't wrap their head around the idea of no ownership.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I will be sure to tell animals they are doing it wrong. Hey ants! You are doing it wrong!
    I have no clue what you're going on about here.

    Trying to impose your beliefs on others seems to be very common in Western cultures. We have fought many wars and millions have people have died because of our insistence that our beliefs are the only TRUE BELIEFS.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-13-12 at 07:13 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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