View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #1001
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Then let the owner produce whatever he wants without labor.

    Or let him do the labor himself, in which case he also becomes the worker - I have no problem with that.
    We already went over who owns what is produced and why so either refute it as a fact, make a case for why it is not justified or drop this.

    Second, you're already getting paid for your labor to assist the owner in their business. You simply DO have to include yourself in another transaction and make a claim to property that is clearly already owned.

  2. #1002
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    No, you accused me of back-tracking (or contradicting myself), which I did not do.
    I did? I guess you could take it that way, but I was implying you didn't understand ownership.

    Obviously you interpreted that phrase to mean something specific so I'd like to know what it was. I can't fix it if I don't know what's wrong. So, once again:

    What do YOU think "... ancient tribes "owned" the land only in so far as they stopped other tribes from using it" means???
    They owned and protected property that they claimed as their own. You don't appear to understand what that means is all.

  3. #1003
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They owned and protected property that they claimed as their own. You don't appear to understand what that means is all.
    And when they moved away from that area?
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
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  4. #1004
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And when they moved away from that area?
    Didn't I answer that already?

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    We already went over who owns what is produced and why so either refute it as a fact, make a case for why it is not justified or drop this.

    Second, you're already getting paid for your labor to assist the owner in their business. You simply DO have to include yourself in another transaction and make a claim to property that is clearly already owned.
    A worker could just as easily decide to accept part of the profit as to accept wages - or a little of both, some wages and some profit.

    You're acting as if workers simply have no choice in the matter, though I happily admit that workers are pretty much forced into the wage-slave contract much like a man in the dessert is forced to play by whatever rules the local owner of the well writes.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Didn't I answer that already?
    As usual you dodged instead of answered.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    ThWhich nation has had unbelievable economic growth the last ten years? That would be China.
    China is slowly but consistently adopting the policies of the west though. If we look at them, looking at us, it will be a loop and our brains will explode!

    Seriously, they are consistently moving more and more towards capitalism/free market, with state involvement in order to support a strong economy and social welfare...just like western style nations.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Says??
    Logic, by looking at what the market produces in every area.

    Parents? Ok. Conservative? Ah..what? As for the rest that is an assumption.
    Yes, Parents who demand that students get 52% credit for assignments they did even do at all (real rule pushed for and passed by Parents here). Conservatives support that silly NCLB. They assult teachers regularly. No assumptions here. Again, all one has to do is pay attention.


    It sure it is. It will drive educational levels.
    No, it won't. Profit, especially in poorer areas will be achieved much easier by skipping the actual work of educating. I refer back to parents and th3 52% for doing nothing.


    That is you saying that.
    It is the logical conclusion. Look out at the market today.


    Lets be clear this new line of discussion is so that you can avoid the question I put out from the start. "How does have a degree in whatever field mean a certain wage is deserved and anything else is unacceptable?" This discussion of a private school system in which I believe in has nothing to do with that question.
    It means you are more qualified. It is simple. And it is comon practice in all feilds that require a degree to do. Doctors can do more and thus make more when they are properly credentialed. There is nothing unusual in this, and the degrees show that you have learned and mastered concepts required.

    How exactly does that show a mastery of the field?
    How does knowledge show mastery? You really don't understand the connection between the two?


    Many younger doctors will use the Internet regularly when they see a patient. Ask people that go to the doctor all the time and they will testify to this.
    I'll have to see support for that. My young doctor uses a computer, to record and save my lab values and patient history, so he has imediate access and can print off reports for me. But that is not using the internet. I think you're full of **** on this.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #1009
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    A worker could just as easily decide to accept part of the profit as to accept wages - or a little of both, some wages and some profit.

    A worker can't decide anything on the property of someone else.

    You're acting as if workers simply have no choice in the matter, though I happily admit that workers are pretty much forced into the wage-slave contract much like a man in the dessert is forced to play by whatever rules the local owner of the well writes.
    They have no justifiable reason to have access to profits. Workers have agreed to an arrangement of labor for payment by the owner. Their choices are limited by the alignment of the transaction and who owns what. This is all things I have said before.

    As for the last bit about wage-slave contracts you should be aware that is an oxymoron.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So basically what you are saying is that the amendments don't exist or is now obvious what I meant by my question that you called me playing prosecutor with you?
    I have no idea what you are attempting to ask me in that post.

    But despite me answering your question, you still seem to be utterly incapable of answering mine.

    Is this so called right of self ownership listed in the US Constitution?
    Last edited by haymarket; 06-13-12 at 04:51 PM.
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