View Poll Results: On a scale of one to ten, how much does it matter?

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  • 1 (least important)

    21 32.31%
  • 2

    3 4.62%
  • 3

    3 4.62%
  • 4

    2 3.08%
  • 5

    3 4.62%
  • 6

    3 4.62%
  • 7

    7 10.77%
  • 8

    10 15.38%
  • 9

    3 4.62%
  • 10 (most important)

    10 15.38%
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Thread: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

  1. #81
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Are you implying that the constitution gives the federal government any authority over state marriage laws?

    Why do you cite the constitution and bill of rights with regards to same sex marriage?
    The 14th Amendment to the Constitution does do exactly that and has already been used several times in regards to state marriage laws being struck down in violation of that Amendment.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #82
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    This issue wouldn't be taking up any time or money if same sex marriage was legalized throughout the US. Easy fix, little problem solved with very little if any negative repercussions.
    Agreed. It's the homophobes who are spending most of the money to deprive citizens of their rights. Prop 8 in California springs to mind.

  3. #83
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun View Post
    14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause.
    "No State shall...deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this phrase doesn't appear to limit the legislative options of the people of the states. It seems to merely be saying that whatever laws are passed must be applied equally to all people and not selectively enforced or ignored.

  4. #84
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    "No State shall...deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this phrase doesn't appear to limit the legislative options of the people of the states. It seems to merely be saying that whatever laws are passed must be applied equally to all people and not selectively enforced or ignored.
    It has already been ruled on by the SCOTUS that laws must apply equally to all types of people. This means that states must have a legitimate reason related to furthering an actual state interest in not allowing one group/person to do something that another is allowed to do when they are "similarly situated". Opposite sex couples are similarly situated as same sex couples, particularly when it comes to the actual laws of marriage. This means the state must have a legitimate state interest being furthered in denying same sex couples the right to enter into marriage.

    So, tell us, what is that legitimate state interest and how does denying same sex couples the right to marry further that state interest?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #85
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Politically, it's in the botton rung of issues that I care about at this point in time.

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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It has already been ruled on by the SCOTUS that laws must apply equally to all types of people. This means that states must have a legitimate reason related to furthering an actual state interest in not allowing one group/person to do something that another is allowed to do when they are "similarly situated". Opposite sex couples are similarly situated as same sex couples, particularly when it comes to the actual laws of marriage. This means the state must have a legitimate state interest being furthered in denying same sex couples the right to enter into marriage.

    So, tell us, what is that legitimate state interest and how does denying same sex couples the right to marry further that state interest?
    The SCOTUS interpretation seems a little odd, in that they appear to be judging the fairness of particular state laws, rather than evaluating whether the state is administering its laws fairly.

    "No State shall...deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    This seems to say that the state must apply its laws equally to all individuals. For example, let's say a state has a law that stipulates a particular license, and stipulates the requirements for acquiring said license and the punishments for operating without such license. It seems that the clause in question would require that the state not arbitrarily decide that some individual may not acquire the license through the proper means, or that it gives out a license for free to some other individual.

    It seems to say that whatever laws exist on the books, that they must be administered equally to people. It doesn't seem to grant the federal government authority to decide whether a law may or may not be on the books.

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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    "No State shall...deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this phrase doesn't appear to limit the legislative options of the people of the states. It seems to merely be saying that whatever laws are passed must be applied equally to all people and not selectively enforced or ignored.
    Correct. Marriage laws create benefits through taxation, inheritance, survivorship, parental rights and so forth. Those laws must be equally applied and not selectively enforced or ignored.

  8. #88
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    The SCOTUS interpretation seems a little odd, in that they appear to be judging the fairness of particular state laws, rather than evaluating whether the state is administering its laws fairly.

    "No State shall...deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    This seems to say that the state must apply its laws equally to all individuals. For example, let's say a state has a law that stipulates a particular license, and stipulates the requirements for acquiring said license and the punishments for operating without such license. It seems that the clause in question would require that the state not arbitrarily decide that some individual may not acquire the license through the proper means, or that it gives out a license for free to some other individual.

    It seems to say that whatever laws exist on the books, that they must be administered equally to people. It doesn't seem to grant the federal government authority to decide whether a law may or may not be on the books.
    If the SCOTUS evaluated laws under what you are suggesting then interracial marriage laws would not have been struck down since everyone was being treated equally under the law. Anyone could marry another person of the same race as themself and anyone caught violating anti-interracial marriage laws were given equal treatment with no regard to their race.

    The SCOTUS interprets the 14th and has been pretty consistent in its interpretation that it means laws cannot be made that deny people equal access to them or protection from them based on certain characteristics that have little to nothing to do with furthering an actual state interest.

    The SCOTUS in Pace v Alabama agreed with you, but that was a long time ago and has not been the case in many decades.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The SCOTUS interprets the 14th and has been pretty consistent in its interpretation that it means laws cannot be made that deny people equal access to them or protection from them based on certain characteristics that have little to nothing to do with furthering an actual state interest.
    Thank you for explaining. I can understand how, given their interpretation, the scotus would see the federal government having authority in state marriage laws.

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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Thank you for explaining. I can understand how, given their interpretation, the scotus would see the federal government having authority in state marriage laws.
    If I understand it correctly, it isn't state marriage laws per se, but any laws which violate the Constitution. A biased marriage law, if found to be in violation of the 14th Amendment, would fall under this.

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