View Poll Results: On a scale of one to ten, how much does it matter?

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  • 1 (least important)

    21 32.31%
  • 2

    3 4.62%
  • 3

    3 4.62%
  • 4

    2 3.08%
  • 5

    3 4.62%
  • 6

    3 4.62%
  • 7

    7 10.77%
  • 8

    10 15.38%
  • 9

    3 4.62%
  • 10 (most important)

    10 15.38%
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Thread: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

  1. #71
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    1.)nope I wasnt implying that at all BUT in general the constitution can absolutely trump state laws

    2.) I didnt cite it, I was replying to someone that did, thats way its in there nor did I mention same sex marriage I mentioned equal gay rights.
    Okay, thanks. I thought you were arguing that the constitution gives the federal government authority over state marriage laws. Never mind; my mistake.

  2. #72
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Without having read any other responses:

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    I don't think that governments ought to get out of the marriage business, for two reasons: a) I don't think it should be involved in it, and b) I think it's the only compromise that both proponents and opponents might accept, aside from the civil union/marriage distinction (which in my experience many anti-SSM folks seem cool with but many that are pro-SSM seem opposed). People should just call themselves married if they feel like it.
    You don't think they should get out of it because you don't think they should be involved? I am really hoping that you corrected this later in the thread because that is really contradictory.

    I believe that SSM is a grave sin, but I oppose any attempt to criminalize it because people have to right to choose self-destruction; I don't see why opponents care about it. I also don't really understand why so many pro-SSM folks think it's such an important issue; correct me if I'm wrong, but civil unions with all the benefits of marriage are available in many jurisdictions, and as far as I know, most homosexuals seem uninterested in marriage (I saw some stats a while ago about limited numbers of SSMs in Massachusetts, but I can't find it now).
    IF a given legal civil union was actually legally equivalent to a legal marriage, I would agree with you. But unless the wording as to the benefits were letter to letter identical, then they are not equal. In addition, several courts have already stated that they will not give the same legal weight to civil unions as they do to marriages. To be equal, they need to be equal.

    Also in regards to your stats, you need to look at the source AND the way they were derived. A low number of SSM in Mass could derive from there simply being a higher concentration of homosexuals in other states, or even from there being a large number performed in the state, but to people from outside the state. The number needs some context.

  3. #73
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Okay, thanks. I thought you were arguing that the constitution gives the federal government authority over state marriage laws. Never mind; my mistake.
    no problem at all, lord knows I make my share of mistakes, at least you asked instead of falsely guessing like others
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  4. #74
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Agreed. SSM as a specific topic is not necessarily the most important issue (though it certainly is for gays who wish to marry), but its treatment is certainly indicative of how a person or group will treat civil liberties in general. An organization that is staunchly against SSM likely won't be for protecting any kind of religious liberty besides their own, for example. It's all part of a bigger ball of wax.
    Agreed. When we embark on a road that creates second tier citizens, we weaken our own rights.

  5. #75
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Are you implying that the constitution gives the federal government any authority over state marriage laws?

    Why do you cite the constitution and bill of rights with regards to same sex marriage?
    14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause.

  6. #76
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    Whether you support or oppose it, how angry would you be if your federal/state government rejected your position?

    I don't think that governments ought to get out of the marriage business, for two reasons: a) I don't think it should be involved in it, and b) I think it's the only compromise that both proponents and opponents might accept, aside from the civil union/marriage distinction (which in my experience many anti-SSM folks seem cool with but many that are pro-SSM seem opposed). People should just call themselves married if they feel like it.

    I believe that SSM is a grave sin, but I oppose any attempt to criminalize it because people have to right to choose self-destruction; I don't see why opponents care about it. I also don't really understand why so many pro-SSM folks think it's such an important issue; correct me if I'm wrong, but civil unions with all the benefits of marriage are available in many jurisdictions, and as far as I know, most homosexuals seem uninterested in marriage (I saw some stats a while ago about limited numbers of SSMs in Massachusetts, but I can't find it now).

    Tuppence for your thoughts?
    I think it's very important for same sex couples to be able to enjoy their civil rights and liberties to marry each other.

    That's because I hold all civil rights and liberties in the highest regard.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  7. #77
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun View Post
    14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause.
    If that clause protects SSM then it also protects polygamy, and disallows gender differences in physical fitness standards in the military, affirmative action nonsense and special contract terms for minority/handicapped owned businesses. How can "adult" be defined as 18 or 21 depending on which right or privilege is involved?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #78
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If that clause protects SSM then it also protects polygamy, and disallows gender differences in physical fitness standards in the military, affirmative action nonsense and special contract terms for minority/handicapped owned businesses. How can "adult" be defined as 18 or 21 depending on which right or privilege is involved?
    Agreed on some, disagreed on others. FWIW, I disagree with Affirmative Action. It's reverse discrimination. As for gender differences, people should be able to do the task or assigned mission. Period. If they can't, then they shouldn't be given that position. Not everyone can cut it in SpecOps or in a high tech MOS. As for polygamy, I'm all for it.

  9. #79
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by 00timh View Post
    As for the poll itself, I do think too much time and effort is being spent on this issue. Gay people make up only a small percentage of the population and not all gay people even want to get married. I am sure just about all of them want the ability to. But seeing as perhaps 5% of the people who want to get married currently cannot, this issue should not be tops on the list. Tops on the list are issues that effect everyone. Basic priorities should be what the politicians should focus their efforts on.
    This issue wouldn't be taking up any time or money if same sex marriage was legalized throughout the US. Easy fix, little problem solved with very little if any negative repercussions.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #80
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If that clause protects SSM then it also protects polygamy, and disallows gender differences in physical fitness standards in the military, affirmative action nonsense and special contract terms for minority/handicapped owned businesses. How can "adult" be defined as 18 or 21 depending on which right or privilege is involved?
    You would be wrong, except for maybe the affirmative action thing, which many are against. Honestly though not one of those things has anything to do with whether the clause covers whether same sex couples deserve equal protection in regards to marriage. They have their own arguments for and against and would face completely different reasoning by the states for having laws concerning them in place.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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