View Poll Results: On a scale of one to ten, how much does it matter?

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  • 1 (least important)

    21 32.31%
  • 2

    3 4.62%
  • 3

    3 4.62%
  • 4

    2 3.08%
  • 5

    3 4.62%
  • 6

    3 4.62%
  • 7

    7 10.77%
  • 8

    10 15.38%
  • 9

    3 4.62%
  • 10 (most important)

    10 15.38%
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Thread: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

  1. #51
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    Those in the military should be able to separate their job from their love life.
    You would think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    And isnt there some rule against dating others in your company or something?
    Yes, there are rules: officers with officers, enlisted with enlisted, and no one 'dates' their chain of command. If an officer and enlisted become a couple, the military gives them a year to either marry or brake up before UCMJ action is taken.

    It is these perfectly legal relationships among consenting adults which are causing a lot of problems. IMO there should be a strict zero-tolerance interpretation of the anti-fraternization rule, at least for active units.
    Last edited by Jerry; 06-08-12 at 01:36 AM.

  2. #52
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You would think so.



    Yes, there are rules: officers with officers, enlisted with enlisted, and no one 'dates' their chain of command. If an officer and enlisted become a couple, the military gives them a year to either marry or brake up before UCMJ action is taken.

    It is these perfectly legal relationships among consenting adults which are causing a lot of problems. IMO there should be a strict zero-tolerance interpretation of the anti-fraternization rule, at least for active units.
    are enlisted men/women allowed to date officers OUTSIDE their chain of command?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #53
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    are enlisted men/women allowed to date officers OUTSIDE their chain of command?
    The Army gives them a year to either marry or brake up before UCMJ action is taken.

  4. #54
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The Army gives them a year to either marry or brake up before UCMJ action is taken.
    Why is it deemed necessary to force them to make a choice? Just curious.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #55
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You would think so.



    Yes, there are rules: officers with officers, enlisted with enlisted, and no one 'dates' their chain of command. If an officer and enlisted become a couple, the military gives them a year to either marry or brake up before UCMJ action is taken.

    It is these perfectly legal relationships among consenting adults which are causing a lot of problems. IMO there should be a strict zero-tolerance interpretation of the anti-fraternization rule, at least for active units.
    Yeah I knew about the fraternization between officers and enlisted thing and chain of command thing. But I thought there was a rule about dating anyone within your company as well. I could be entirely wrong though.

    But I agree with you on the strict zero tolerance interpretation of the anti fraternization rule.

  6. #56
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Why is it deemed necessary to force them to make a choice? Just curious.
    To avoid favoritism, and to avoid the appearance of favoritism to other solders. Also, officers order enlisted to their death, so there's that. An officer needs to be making decisions as an officer, not as a spouse, and we can't have NCOs running around thinking they can boss solders of higher rank under threat of going to their spouse.

    Essentially, these rules are to maintain 'good order and discipline' within the ranks. If any 2 solders in the same chain of command are married, one of them will be moved.

    Romantic relationships in general are problematic, in that dating the chain of command is a popular way for females to receive favoritism. Obviously we know what the male gets out of the deal. Promotions and other favorable action should be based on a solder's work performance, PT and rifle qualification, not based on whether they spit or swallow. The pursuit of romantic relationships is the reason females have to live in separate quarters from males. Allowing gay men to openly live in the regular male billets is exactly like letting women live in the male billets.

    Even to solders who wouldn't entertain the relationship, those solders are still being forced to live in very close proximity to solders who do, and that causes a lot of problems.
    Last edited by Jerry; 06-08-12 at 02:04 AM.

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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    Yeah I knew about the fraternization between officers and enlisted thing and chain of command thing. But I thought there was a rule about dating anyone within your company as well. I could be entirely wrong though.

    But I agree with you on the strict zero tolerance interpretation of the anti fraternization rule.
    It's one of those rules where the unit commander has a lot of leeway to enforce as they see fit. You could have one unit with a strict zero-tolorence enforcement and another right next to it where the rule is so laz that females can come and go from the male tent as they please.

  8. #58
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It's one of those rules where the unit commander has a lot of leeway to enforce as they see fit. You could have one unit with a strict zero-tolorence enforcement and another right next to it where the rule is so laz that females can come and go from the male tent as they please.
    Ok thanks for the clarification.

  9. #59
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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    I'm for SSM but I don't call it a Constitutional right because I've read the Constitution.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  10. #60
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: How important do you consider the issue of gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    I'm for SSM but I don't call it a Constitutional right because I've read the Constitution.
    as "anyone here" called it that?
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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