View Poll Results: Is Fatalism a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

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Thread: Is Fatalism a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

  1. #1
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    Is Fatalism a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

    I really hate discussing politics with people who think the economy's inevitably going down the drain, that China's our coming overlords, or that so and so ideological movement can't be beat, so join it.

    The only reason these things happen is because people are psychologically uncommitted in the first place. I understand that some people are uncommitted because they don't want to deal with untrustworthy people, but many people are uncommitted because they're lazy or sadistic.

    Is fatalism a self-fulfilling prophecy?

  2. #2
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    Re: Is Fatalism a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

    What is driving this massive borrow and spend binge are morons in DC that will neither cut spending nor raise taxes to pay for it. These DC morons have decided (realized?) that they will be re-elected, for the most part, by keeping all gov't programs intact (plus COLA adjustments) and not raising anyone's taxes. That way they get the votes of those getting gov't assistance and those that have had their taxation frozen at a rate they feel "good" about.

    To far too may people, the national debt is simply an abstract concept. While they understand personal debt, like a home mortgage, that may be 3 to 5x what their annual income is, they view national debt basically the same way, so it is "no big deal" to them (at about the same as 6x annual income). Unlike that personal mortagage debt, however, the national debt is neither secured by an asset nor is it getting smaller over time, in fact, federal finances (you can't really call it a "budget") are allowed to spend 40% more, every year, than its tax income covers. That is like a worker making $100K spending $140K every year, it is completely unsustainable.

    We have two distinct groups of voters in this nation now; 1) those that get direct gov't assistance, work for the gov't (federal, state or local) and those that primarily do business with gov't and 2) those, outside the first group, that pay the bulk of the federal taxes and depend totally on the private economy. These groups are almost exactly the same size now as far as voter representation, putting our nation in a dangerous situation where neither gov't spending cuts nor tax increases are politically possible without tipping the balance to favor the other half; so we "compromise" and simply borrow and spend.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-04-12 at 09:18 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #3
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    Re: Is Fatalism a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

    I don't think fatalism could be considered a self-fulfilling prophecy, as fatalism itself implies dependence on fate and predetermination. Fatalism itself would not allow for the possibility of conscious action in determining an outcome.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Is Fatalism a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

    One thing is sure: The moment you believe it is *fact* that you cannot reach your objective, you will no longer try to, and thus, you won't reach it.

    If it's really fact or not is a different question.

    If it is, what you call "fatalism" saves you valuable resources. If it is not, fatalism makes you lose resources.
    Last edited by German guy; 06-04-12 at 08:01 PM.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Is Fatalism a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    One thing is sure: The moment you believe it is *fact* that you cannot reach your objective, you will no longer try to, and thus, you won't reach it.

    If it's really fact or not is a different question.

    If it is, what you call "fatalism" saves you valuable resources. If it is not, fatalism makes you lose resources.
    I'm not sure about this.

    Some people are addicted to vanity. When they recognize something's impossible, they go even harder at it whether for danger or defiance.

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    Re: Is Fatalism a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    I'm not sure about this.

    Some people are addicted to vanity. When they recognize something's impossible, they go even harder at it whether for danger or defiance.
    This certainly exists. On the other side, there are people who give up too early, because they either lack the imagination to plan new efforts, or because first setbacks discourage them easily. The latter would be an example for "fatalism" that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Is Fatalism a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

    Problem is most people seem to have the notion that the opposite of fatalism is buying lotto tickets and voting every 4 years. To others, doing their part is paying taxes, that like was said, is not nearly enough to cover the federal spending. That's the extent they're willing to commit to turning things around personally and collectively. A very few get off their ass for any cause, and those are often arrested. Part of that is people genuinely feel helpless, just a number, when you start talking about things like paying off the trillions in national debt, making our government stop sucking, halting climate change and so on. How do you not get fatalistic about say climate change when many scientists claim we've already passed the tipping point?

    Maybe there's some truth to what the OP is being told. Or not, time will tell. For people who struggle to get by though, they will definitely feel like these huge issues are out of their hands. It's easy to stop caring and just give up when your job app has been rejected dozens or even hundreds of times.

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