Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

haymarket · Jul 1, 2012

cpwill said:
happy to do so

Indeed it's not. You have public sector union's ability to extract wealth from their hosts to fight for.

Thank you. When you go back and read that thread it is clear that I was speaking about YOUR PLAN which you believed was a good idea to give the poor financial independence. I was NOT making derogatory or demeaning or insulting or just plain bitchy comments about the poor or their condition as others do on these forums.

Dickieboy · Jul 1, 2012

haymarket said:
Thank you. When you go back and read that thread it is clear that I was speaking about YOUR PLAN which you believed was a good idea to give the poor financial independence. I was NOT making derogatory or demeaning or insulting or just plain bitchy comments about the poor or their condition as others do on these forums.

While I agree with you it doesn't seem derogatory, demeaning, insulting or bitchy it does seem uncompassionate which is the reference CP made. Paraphrasing ‘not my fight for the poor or their financial independence’…does that sound compassionate to you? What if a ‘right winger’ said it how would you interpret it?

haymarket · Jul 1, 2012

Dickieboy said:
While I agree with you it doesn't seem derogatory, demeaning, insulting or bitchy it does seem uncompassionate which is the reference CP made. Paraphrasing ‘not my fight for the poor or their financial independence’…does that sound compassionate to you? What if a ‘right winger’ said it how would you interpret it?

As I have stated, if you go back and read the pages preceding the snippet taken out of context, it becomes crystal clear that I was talking about the scheme offered by CP for the poor to gain what he believed would be their financial independence.

You are correct - that little snippet used by cp does indeed give one the impression that I was uncompassionate. And that was the intent of using it in that fashion.

I also have no doubt that when the poster ran the tiny snippet without a link or the whole context of it, they knew exactly what they were doing and why they were doing it. One of his fellow travelers - Turtledude - had been called out. So he attempted to play the white knight on horseback coming to his aid and support.

Dickieboy · Jul 1, 2012

haymarket said:
As I have stated, if you go back and read the pages preceding the snippet taken out of context, it becomes crystal clear that I was talking about the scheme offered by CP for the poor to gain what he believed would be their financial independence.

I DID read some of the pages...and I do understand your point...IMO your comment didn't sound compassionate...

I also have no doubt that when cp ran the tiny snippet without a link or the whole context of it, he knew exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it. One of his fellow travelers - Turtledude - had been called out. So he attempted to play the white knight on horseback coming to his aid and support.

No doubt either, I saw it as a little 'friendly tweeking'...you are SO sensitive...I have noted you playing the ‘white knight’ before so be careful ‘throwing stones’.

haymarket · Jul 1, 2012

Dickieboy said:
I DID read some of the pages...and I do understand your point...IMO your comment didn't sound compassionate...

No doubt either, I saw it as a little 'friendly tweeking'...you are SO sensitive...I have noted you playing the ‘white knight’ before so be careful ‘throwing stones’.

Being a white knight is a very good thing when you are on the side of pure good and against total evil.

Your point is taken and noted.

eace

274ina · Jul 2, 2012

ttwtt78640 said:
Sneak in that FICA (at the self employed rate no less), to make your apples to moonrocks "FACT" comparison work out. By the way, that $80K guy actually pays FIT at 10.2% assuming married filing jointly (no kids), or 12% filing single.

For FIT "FACT" try this site: 2012 federal income tax estimator | Calculators by CalcXML

How many people are employed as a result of that $80K guy? I tend to get hired by rich people, help wanted ads are rarely the result of poor folks needing to hire well paid help.

Yes taxes are taxes. ALL of them. Rich only pay 16%. We pay lots more. Now include gas tax to get to work, property taxes etc etc etc .

So I was rounding.......close enough.

$80 of personal income is NEVER then paid to living wages. It is PERSONAL income.
Kind of like the puppets of the RICH like to confuse PERSONAL INCOME taxes and the UNTAXED income of the corp that then goes to wages.
The REAL choice is does the money go to wages OR PERSONAL income of the RICH. High taxes on high wages will help raise wages for the worker.

TurtleDude · Jul 2, 2012

274ina said:
Yes taxes are taxes. ALL of them. Rich only pay 16%. We pay lots more. Now include gas tax to get to work, property taxes etc etc etc .

So I was rounding.......close enough.

$80 of personal income is NEVER then paid to living wages. It is PERSONAL income.
Kind of like the puppets of the RICH like to confuse PERSONAL INCOME taxes and the UNTAXED income of the corp that then goes to wages.
The REAL choice is does the money go to wages OR PERSONAL income of the RICH. High taxes on high wages will help raise wages for the worker.

that is nonsense. High taxes on high wages does not raise the wages of workers

where did you come up with this bs?

Bodi · Jul 3, 2012

274ina said:
Yes taxes are taxes. ALL of them. Rich only pay 16%. We pay lots more. Now include gas tax to get to work, property taxes etc etc etc .

So I was rounding.......close enough.

$80 of personal income is NEVER then paid to living wages. It is PERSONAL income.
Kind of like the puppets of the RICH like to confuse PERSONAL INCOME taxes and the UNTAXED income of the corp that then goes to wages.
The REAL choice is does the money go to wages OR PERSONAL income of the RICH. High taxes on high wages will help raise wages for the worker.

It is a big game to the "rich". They have it... they want it... they will lie through their teeth to keep it...

OscarB63 · Jul 3, 2012

Bodhisattva said:
It is a big game to the "rich". They have it... they want it... they will lie through their teeth to keep it...

It is a big game to the "poor". They don't have it... They want it...(but don't want to have to earn it) they will lie through their teeth to get it...

Morality Games · Jul 3, 2012

OscarB63 said:
It is a big game to the "poor". They don't have it... They want it...(but don't want to have to earn it) they will lie through their teeth to get it...

You only have to take a quick glance at the historical record to realize that humanity is vicious and self-destructive when it comes to money. All income brackets are subject to that logic.

OscarB63 · Jul 3, 2012

Morality Games said:
You only have to take a quick glance at the historical record to realize that humanity is vicious and self-destructive when it comes to money. All income brackets are subject to that logic.

Humans are vicious and self-destructive when it comes to any resource. Those that have it will do anything to keep it. Those that don't will do anything to get it. It is engrained in human nature. There will always be haves and have nots. And the have nots will always vilify the haves and claim that they have too much or came by it unfairly. The haves will always vilify the have nots and accuse them of sloth. :shrug:

Life is inherently "unfair", live with it or die. The best you can hope is to get the biggest piece of the pie for yourself.

haymarket · Jul 3, 2012

OscarB63 said:
Humans are vicious and self-destructive when it comes to any resource. Those that have it will do anything to keep it. Those that don't will do anything to get it. It is engrained in human nature. There will always be haves and have nots. And the have nots will always vilify the haves and claim that they have too much or came by it unfairly. The haves will always vilify the have nots and accuse them of sloth. :shrug:

Life is inherently "unfair", live with it or die. The best you can hope is to get the biggest piece of the pie for yourself.

While there is some validity in some of your observations, your comments definitely do NOT apply to all people. Lots of people have made a decision to live modest lives and not simply chase the latest and greatest more and more newer and improved whatever it is of the moment. Lots of people are more that willing to share what they have in terms of increased taxation.

Your view of getting the biggest piece you can only encourages the worst in human nature. We must listen to our better angles and follow a standard much higher than dog eat dog or screw everybody except me and mine.

We are Americans. We are better than that.

Neomalthusian · Jul 3, 2012

haymarket said:
While there is some validity in some of your observations, your comments definitely do NOT apply to all people. Lots of people have made a decision to live modest lives and not simply chase the latest and greatest more and more newer and improved whatever it is of the moment. Lots of people are more that willing to share what they have in terms of increased taxation.

People do things out of self-interest. Even the benevolent gestures are out f self-interest. Altruism itself is thinly-veiled self-interest.

Your view of getting the biggest piece you can only encourages the worst in human nature.

Placing your judgments on human instincts like this is somewhat pointless. Like Christians vilifying sex. Preach all you want, it's a universally human tendency, and in fact it's a universal characteristic of all living things. Survive, thrive, reproduce. "The worst in human nature..." Pff.

We must listen to our better angles and follow a standard much higher than dog eat dog or screw everybody except me and mine.

Well I say we must not bankrupt ourselves with exploding debts. it's amazing to relegate self-interest to "the worst of human nature" and speak do negatively about maximizing one's personal success, while seeing little or no problem with using public credit like a manic gambler on a coke binge.

Dickieboy · Jul 3, 2012

haymarket said:
standard much higher than dog eat dog

Sounds so similar to the 'anti-dog eat dog' law...

We are Americans. We are better than that.

American exceptionalism? I can't remember but wasn't this refuted on this board last week...by one of those on 'your side'?

Catawba · Jul 3, 2012

The rich will pay the lowest taxes since the Hoover Administration over 80 years ago

"Today clinched it. American voters can now see for themselves that Republicans are protectorates of the wealthiest and Big Oil — just in case they weren’t aware of this previously. Medicare is taking a dive in order to give the wealthy more dominance over this country.

The Paul Ryan budget would make life miserable for the elderly, the middle class, and life more cushy for the 1% who will be getting a $265,000 tax cut on top of what they get from the Bush tax cuts for the rich.

Center on Budget and Policy priorities reports:

The Ryan budget includes a number of specific tax cuts, on top of making the Bush tax cuts permanent. All of its new tax cuts are both expensive and tilted toward high-income households. It would cut the top individual tax rate to 25 percent, the lowest level since the Hoover Administration more than 80 years ago. It would cut the corporate rate to 25 percent and eliminate both the Alternative Minimum Tax and the Affordable Care Act’s increase in the Medicare tax for high-income people.

A new TPC analysis finds that people with incomes above $1 million would receive a $265,000 average annual tax cut just from the new Ryan proposals (i.e., not counting what they would also receive from extension of the Bush tax cuts). Middle-income taxpayers — those with incomes between $50,000 and $75,000 — would receive $1,045, on average".

The rich will pay the lowest taxes since the Hoover Administration over 80 years ago – FreakOutNation

OscarB63 · Jul 3, 2012

Catawba said:
The rich will pay the lowest taxes since the Hoover Administration over 80 years ago

"Today clinched it. American voters can now see for themselves that Republicans are protectorates of the wealthiest and Big Oil — just in case they weren’t aware of this previously. Medicare is taking a dive in order to give the wealthy more dominance over this country.

The Paul Ryan budget would make life miserable for the elderly, the middle class, and life more cushy for the 1% who will be getting a $265,000 tax cut on top of what they get from the Bush tax cuts for the rich.

Center on Budget and Policy priorities reports:

The Ryan budget includes a number of specific tax cuts, on top of making the Bush tax cuts permanent. All of its new tax cuts are both expensive and tilted toward high-income households. It would cut the top individual tax rate to 25 percent, the lowest level
since the Hoover Administration more than 80 years ago. It would cut the corporate rate to 25 percent and eliminate both the Alternative Minimum Tax and the Affordable Care Act’s increase in the Medicare tax for high-income people.

A new TPC analysis finds that people with incomes above $1 million would receive a $265,000 average annual tax cut just from the new Ryan proposals (i.e., not counting what they would also receive from extension of the Bush tax cuts). Middle-income taxpayers — those with incomes between $50,000 and $75,000 — would receive $1,045, on average".

The rich will pay the lowest taxes since the Hoover Administration over 80 years ago – FreakOutNation

And yet they still pay more in tax dollars than everyone else combined. A single tear rolls down my cheek.

It's really quite simple: if you don't pay taxes (or pay minimal taxes) you don't get a big reduction when taxes are cut.

TurtleDude · Jul 3, 2012

OscarB63 said:
And yet they still pay more in tax dollars than everyone else combined. A single tear rolls down my cheek.

It's really quite simple: if you don't pay taxes (or pay minimal taxes) you don't get a big reduction when taxes are cut.

the parasite advocates never acknowledge that EVERYONE Else is paying less taxes too yet they tend to keep demanding more and more government. Hint-the Rich weren't the ones the Obamacare BS was designed to pander to

Catawba · Jul 3, 2012

OscarB63 said:
And yet they still pay more in tax dollars than everyone else combined. A single tear rolls down my cheek.

No they do not, which is why you couldn't prove a source to back up that claim. They own more of the nations wealth. 6 people in the US own more wealth than 30% of US citizens. Hardly a big surprise and doesn't negate that the GOP's tax cuts proposed for the rich would mean the lowest tax rates in over 80 years.

Without the job creation the Bush tax cuts were to provide, there is no reason for voters to continue to allow them, much less to give the rich a couple hundred thousand more in tax cuts at the expense of our seniors. So save your tears when the voters disallow the tax cuts for the rich in November.

TurtleDude · Jul 3, 2012

Catawba said:
No they do not, which is why you couldn't prove a source to back up that claim. They own more of the nations wealth. 6 people in the US own more wealth than 30% of US citizens. Hardly a big surprise and doesn't negate that the GOP's tax cuts proposed for the rich would mean the lowest tax rates in over 80 years.

Without the job creation the Bush tax cuts were to provide, there is no reason for voters to continue to allow them, much less to give the rich a couple hundred thousand more in tax cuts at the expense of our seniors. So save your tears when the voters disallow the tax cuts for the rich in November.

it is dishonest and stupid to whine about wealth when we are talking about taxes on income. taxes on income are bad enough but taxes on wealth are an abomination since many forms of wealth do not generate income (i.e. the revenue needed to pay taxes)

there is no reason for us taxpayers to continue to fund parasites who do nothing but demand more and more of our wealth. Your idiotic rants that all wealth should be subject to the whims of the voters is an appeal the the tyranny of mediocrity

Catawba · Jul 3, 2012

TurtleDude said:
it is dishonest and stupid to whine about wealth when we are talking about taxes on income.

I see you could not provide evidence of the claim either. Now there is a big surprise! LOL!

TurtleDude · Jul 3, 2012

Catawba said:
I see you could not provide evidence of the claim either. Now there is a big surprise! LOL!

why do you demand "proof" of the obvious? is that because you cannot refute the points I make or because you feel a need to somehow respond and that is the best you can do. We have an income tax not a wealth tax so whining about wealth is irrelevant

do you think non income generating wealth-bought with income that has already been taxed-should also be taxed

In other words if I make 100K and pay 20K in taxes and I take 20K from that 80K remaining and buy say some gold should I be taxed each year on the value of that gold as well?

TurtleDude · Jul 3, 2012

Catawba said:
I see you could not provide evidence of the claim either. Now there is a big surprise! LOL!

I guess you cannot figure out that it is my opinion that its stupid to talk about wealth when we are talking about taxes on income. Other than the death tax there is no wealth tax in our federal system

you never provide any evidence for your babbling that the masses should not allow (LOL) the rich to have tax cuts

Catawba · Jul 3, 2012

TurtleDude said:
I guess you cannot figure out that it is my opinion that its stupid to talk about wealth when we are talking about taxes on income. Other than the death tax there is no wealth tax in our federal system

you never provide any evidence for your babbling that the masses should not allow (LOL) the rich to have tax cuts

There is no credible reason for voters to continue to allow the tax cuts for the wealthy, but several reasons to disallow them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/28/b...for-raising-top-tax-rates.html?pagewanted=all

winston53660 · Jul 3, 2012

TurtleDude said:
I guess you cannot figure out that it is my opinion that its stupid to talk about wealth when we are talking about taxes on income. Other than the death tax there is no wealth tax in our federal system

you never provide any evidence for your babbling that the masses should not allow (LOL) the rich to have tax cuts

Oh dear goodness you worse than people you complain about when your hog is so fat

274ina · Jul 4, 2012

OscarB63 said:
It is a big game to the "poor". They don't have it... They want it...(but don't want to have to earn it) they will lie through their teeth to get it...

Ahhhh, you seem to forget the poor create ALL WEALTH. the RICH create nothing without th poor. So YES they did earn it. ALL OF IT.

Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

Yes

No

warrior of the wetlands

Just waiting for my set...

Farts in Elevators

Farts in Elevators

Disappointed Evolutionist

Farts in Elevators

warrior of the wetlands

Disappointed Evolutionist

warrior of the wetlands

Disappointed Evolutionist

warrior of the wetlands

warrior of the wetlands

Disappointed Evolutionist