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Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

  • Yes

    Votes: 58 48.3%

  • No

    Votes: 62 51.7%
  • Total voters
    120
TurtleDude said:
what gaping idiocy. You were the one who brought up violence not me. Your obsession appears to be over the fact others are more industrious than you are and you think that means they should be taxed to pay for what you want

and you also have this attitude that those who succeed must have "walked over others"

that assumes facts not in evidence and demonstrates the typical attitude of excusing why you do not succeed
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No, I merely recounted history - I'm sorry you can't see the difference. Apparently the shoe fit all too well.

I have what I want and don't need your taxes to continue with that life. It's sad you're so self-centered to believe the crap you spew.

I'm sure you've never been walked on so, of course, you have no clue and no evidence. Yours has been a gilded life, we all understand that as you constantly take pains to remind us. I don't envy you, I pity you.
 
TurtleDude said:
So when rich dem elitists proclaim they are pushing higher taxes to help the poor that is complete BS?
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What makes you think they aren't helping the poor?
- If people on the bottom get more money then it would seem they are helping the poor.
- Your constant whining certainly enforces my belief they are helping the poor.

It's a sure bet if they were helping you as much as you'd like, you wouldn't be whining about it - or maybe you would. Sometimes I think you just like to whine. Maybe it's your excuse for eating $50/lb cheese.


As for "private charity freely given" that's not altruism either. For the 1% I'm sure it's nothing more than a tax write-off or a way to somehow pay off some of their guilt. Personally, I do it because it makes me feel good. That's still not altruistic. Like I said, altruism doesn't exist and anyone believing otherwise is delusional.

TurtleDude said:
thanks for that admission-I agree.
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What admission - that you draw poor and inaccurate conclusions? I'm glad you agree! :)
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
Not really. Many view their personal income FROM a job as deserved. They supply their labor/talent for use by another and they get money in return. Try it sometime, you might even like it. ;-)
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Try what? Working?

Working is not a competition. There are no winners or losers. If the people that pave the roads all quit and nobody does it how is the multi-millionaire supposed to get to work? If the rich guy's toilet is clogged after a big **** and requires a plumber... and the plumber quits, who is going to unclog it? We can go on all day about how the system works because of everybody's contribution.

So, based on your personal, intimate knowledge of ONE family, we should basically say that it follows that all "rich" are undeserving, pampered and greedy, thus it is just that we tax them, for having these bad qualities, at rates 2x to 5x, what "normal" hardworking people are expected to pay. How do you determine what someone deserves? Do a machinist, carpenter and auto mechanic deserve the same pay? Do a burger flipper, a store clerk and a taxi driver deserve the same pay?
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Millionaire families are not hermits... we do socialize once in a while and I know hundreds and hundreds of families...

I would say that carpenters and machinists deserve much more pay and that CEO's deserve much less pay. There are some companies where pretty much everybody gets the same pay.

Kamikazee
Based on whose rules? Who are you to say what another person deserves? What do you think the word "deserves" means?


de·serve
   [dih-zurv] Show IPA verb, de·served, de·serv·ing.

verb (used with object)
1.
to merit, be qualified for, or have a claim to (reward, assistance, punishment, etc.) because of actions, qualities, or situation

That family has a claim to that money based on their situation (the fact that they inherited it and it belongs to them). Therefore, by definition, they deserve it
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I am the person saying that they don't deserve everything while others wallow with nothing evevn though they work as hard as they can...
 
winston53660 said:
And when Governor's that so happen to own drug testing centers propose testing people for drugs they aren't suckling at the tit are they....
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sounds like a conflict of interest to me but then again, I am one of those scary libertarian types who think you should have a right to put what you want in your body without being persecuted by the government for it. but then again I also don't think we should be funding your recreational pharmaceutical journeys either
 
MoSurveyor said:
No, I merely recounted history - I'm sorry you can't see the difference. Apparently the shoe fit all too well.

I have what I want and don't need your taxes to continue with that life. It's sad you're so self-centered to believe the crap you spew.

I'm sure you've never been walked on so, of course, you have no clue and no evidence. Yours has been a gilded life, we all understand that as you constantly take pains to remind us. I don't envy you, I pity you.
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Nah you tax hikers (don't tax me-tax the other guy) are doing that out of the goodness of your heart. Your concept of charity is demanding someone else be forced to help the poor.
 
MoSurveyor said:
What makes you think they aren't helping the poor?
- If people on the bottom get more money then it would seem they are helping the poor.
- Your constant whining certainly enforces my belief they are helping the poor.

It's a sure bet if they were helping you as much as you'd like, you wouldn't be whining about it - or maybe you would. Sometimes I think you just like to whine. Maybe it's your excuse for eating $50/lb cheese.


As for "private charity freely given" that's not altruism either. For the 1% I'm sure it's nothing more than a tax write-off or a way to somehow pay off some of their guilt. Personally, I do it because it makes me feel good. That's still not altruistic. Like I said, altruism doesn't exist and anyone believing otherwise is delusional.

What admission - that you draw poor and inaccurate conclusions? I'm glad you agree! :)
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political pimps giving the poor money is best described as a pusher selling discounted drugs to create dependency
 
kamikaze483 said:
Yes. This also fits in with the proper meaning of "deserve." Meriting wages due to working. Hmm. What a concept.
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You can be as glib as you want but that does not change the fact that many people want to work but are unable to get jobs that pay enough to support themselves or a family. I am not a socialist or a liberal... I am a realist that accepts that people are selfish and will keep as much for themselves as they can and justify the reasons for it. Much like a few of you are doing.
 
TurtleDude said:
that makes no sense whatsoever. you are in no position to determine what someone else deserves or "needs" and using that attitude, you can be held to say that as long as someone is poor, no one should be rich
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I always love the "who are you to decide" argument. It actually makes perfect sense TD. People can be poor for a variety of reasons. Being poor is not the issue it is why people are poor. Hard working people that slave away should not be poor. You want to work at Blockbuster and make minimum for checking out some movies you should be poor. You work in construction or trash collecting or something else completely vital to society then you should not be poor.

People can be rich and people can be poor but the hardest working people should be rich... not just the ones that lucked into a certain job.
 
TurtleDude said:
Nah you tax hikers (don't tax me-tax the other guy) are doing that out of the goodness of your heart. Your concept of charity is demanding someone else be forced to help the poor.
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Egocentric to the end, like no one else's tax money helps the poor. LOL! Well, at least you're consistent even if your views are badly skewed.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Egocentric to the end, like no one else's tax money helps the poor. LOL! Well, at least you're consistent even if your views are badly skewed.
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why do people like me have a duty to fund most of what people like you want? only when you have to pay for the government you demand will you get the clue that there is too much government. and no-I don't believe the massive government spending helps the poor-it causes dependency and sloth-which is what the dems want since dependent sloths tend to vote for those who feed their dependency and sloth
 
I haven't been posting on this thread and haven't read all the posts, but I think something is being missed by most. I've thought about this on and off for a long time. High income people us a much larger share of the country's infrastructure than the low income people. One example is shipping product. The content of a truck leaving the plant where I worked 'carried' more product to cover the CEO's salary and bonuses, than mine. (He also got things like differed bonuses.) So the government infrastructure was used by him more than I used. There are many examples of this.
 
OhIsee.Then said:
I haven't been posting on this thread and haven't read all the posts, but I think something is being missed by most. I've thought about this on and off for a long time. High income people us a much larger share of the country's infrastructure than the low income people. One example is shipping product. The content of a truck leaving the plant where I worked 'carried' more product to cover the CEO's salary and bonuses, than mine. (He also got things like differed bonuses.) So the government infrastructure was used by him more than I used. There are many examples of this.
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that is complete nonsense. IN my city, the poorest area of the city causes half the police runs. the richest area has less police calls in a month than the poor area does in 4 hours
 
No response TD?
 
Bodhisattva said:
I always love the "who are you to decide" argument. It actually makes perfect sense TD. People can be poor for a variety of reasons. Being poor is not the issue it is why people are poor. Hard working people that slave away should not be poor. You want to work at Blockbuster and make minimum for checking out some movies you should be poor. You work in construction or trash collecting or something else completely vital to society then you should not be poor.

People can be rich and people can be poor but the hardest working people should be rich... not just the ones that lucked into a certain job.
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Life isn't fair and its not government's proper role to try to change that. Joe Strummer ran marathons and died at age 50 of a heart attack, Gregg Allman and Keith Richards did more drugs on a tour than Pfizer produced in a calendar year and they both are still playing.

wages are based on the market. and that still is the best determinative
 
TurtleDude said:
why do people like me have a duty to fund most of what people like you want? only when you have to pay for the government you demand will you get the clue that there is too much government. and no-I don't believe the massive government spending helps the poor-it causes dependency and sloth-which is what the dems want since dependent sloths tend to vote for those who feed their dependency and sloth
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"People like you"?!? :lamo

You think I don't pay for government? :lamo

And you get 3/3 this post - you're back on the "buying the poor vote" shtick, again! :lamo
 
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TurtleDude said:
wages are based on the market. and that still is the best determinative
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Yep! That Race to the Bottom is always the most profitable for the capitalist. Kinda' screws up the rest of the country, though.
 
TurtleDude said:
that is complete nonsense. IN my city, the poorest area of the city causes half the police runs. the richest area has less police calls in a month than the poor area does in 4 hours
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Just a couple questions: Is the population density the same in both areas? Are the criminals earning a low income and paying low taxes or they doing something different? If the non-criminal workers living in the poorest areas lived in another area without criminals would they use 180 times more police runs.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Yep! That Race to the Bottom is always the most profitable for the capitalist. Kinda' screws up the rest of the country, though.
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the desire to impose "fairness" or wages by the government has always been a rousing success
 
OhIsee.Then said:
Just a couple questions: Is the population density the same in both areas? Are the criminals earning a low income and paying low taxes or they doing something different? If the non-criminal workers living in the poorest areas lived in another area without criminals would they use 180 times more police runs.
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14% of the population is responsible for 70% of the police calls
 
MoSurveyor said:
Lost? That's odd, I thought it was just a discussion they were having - not a debate.


Of course, I can see where you'd like to believe he 'lost' or that his opinion in this matter is somehow wrong but considering your history I'm more inclined to believe you've made some stuff up and are trying to peddle it as fact, again.
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Are you aware of what went down when the progressive tax was originally passed? Apparently not.

Are you aware what the problem was? Apparently not.

Do you know how the government was originally funded and how they decided on it? Apparently not.

Your ignorance is outstanding, but continue on with it.
 
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Bodhisattva said:
You can be as glib as you want but that does not change the fact that many people want to work but are unable to get jobs that pay enough to support themselves or a family. I am not a socialist or a liberal... I am a realist that accepts that people are selfish and will keep as much for themselves as they can and justify the reasons for it. Much like a few of you are doing.
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...Which is their absolute right and perogative. And it's no one's business but theirs. Its true that there are selfish people. There are also envious people who think that they have a claim to selfish people's money. They do not. And the vast majority (2/3) of charitable contributions are made by the top 3% of income earners.

WHAT DO WE DO NOW? | Giving Institute

The fact that the top 3% give more than 66% of the total charitable giving each year doesn't seem to indicate that selfishness is pervasive among the super rich.
 
Henrin said:
Are you aware of what went down when the progressive tax was originally passed? Apparently not.
Are you aware what the problem was? Apparently not.
Do you know how the government was originally funded and how they decided on it? Apparently not.
Your ignorance is outstanding, but continue on with it.
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I have no idea what kind of crazy crap your right-wingnut websites are using to fill your head. Considering many of the half-truths and veiled lies we see you regurgitate I'm not sure I care, either.
 
kamikaze483 said:
...Which is their absolute right and perogative. And it's no one's business but theirs. Its true that there are selfish people. There are also envious people who think that they have a claim to selfish people's money. They do not. And the vast majority (2/3) of charitable contributions are made by the top 3% of income earners.

WHAT DO WE DO NOW? | Giving Institute

The fact that the top 3% give more than 66% of the total charitable giving each year doesn't seem to indicate that selfishness is pervasive among the super rich.
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Another believer in altruism??? :lol:
 
TurtleDude said:
what gaping idiocy. You were the one who brought up violence not me. Your obsession appears to be over the fact others are more industrious than you are and you think that means they should be taxed to pay for what you want

and you also have this attitude that those who succeed must have "walked over others"

that assumes facts not in evidence and demonstrates the typical attitude of excusing why you do not succeed
Click to expand...

Your ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE describes every one of your posts where you rip on somebody who disagrees with you and you assume it is because of money they may not have.
 
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then
Just a couple questions: Is the population density the same in both areas? Are the criminals earning a low income and paying low taxes or they doing something different? If the non-criminal workers living in the poorest areas lived in another area without criminals would they use 180 times more police runs.



TurtleDude said:
14% of the population is responsible for 70% of the police calls
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OK, who are those 14%? Are they the employed low income workers that should be paying higher taxes because the use the police so much and the police are the major users of our tax money?
 
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