• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

  • Yes

    Votes: 58 48.3%

  • No

    Votes: 62 51.7%
  • Total voters
    120
MoSurveyor said:
Then FICA should be included in all discussions of Fed taxes. The poor are paying more than their "fair share" as a percent of income given that every one of them pay 7.45% of their paycheck with no deductions and no chance of refunds - and that's before any Fed income tax is included. The rich are skating ...
Click to expand...

My uncle is rich. State, Local, Federal, etc; he loses about 50 cents of every dollar he makes to one government or another.

I'm not rich. In fact, I've spent pretty much my entire working life thus far below the median income. I get more money back every year than I pay in taxes. Our tax system for me is an income.

I'm pretty sure, as far as our respective tax-paying duties, one of us is skating, and the other one isn't...
 
cpwill said:
My uncle is rich. State, Local, Federal, etc; he loses about 50 cents of every dollar he makes to one government or another.

I'm not rich. In fact, I've spent pretty much my entire working life thus far below the median income. I get more money back every year than I pay in taxes. Our tax system for me is an income.


I'm pretty sure, as far as our respective tax-paying duties, one of us is skating, and the other one isn't...
Click to expand...


So does the middleclass and they are far less able to afford it. Middleclass and low income earners pay every single tax and duty and fee your rich uncle pays...gasoline taxs, sales taxs at all the SAME RATE as your uncle....your rich uncle is asked to pay more in income tax because he has it all....and he should...just like I do an all others should
 
lpast said:
So does the middleclass and they are far less able to afford it. Middleclass and low income earners pay every single tax and duty and fee your rich uncle pays...gasoline taxs, sales taxs at all the SAME RATE as your uncle....your rich uncle is asked to pay more in income tax because he has it all....and he should...just like I do an all others should
Click to expand...

The middle class is generally skating. Gasoline taxes? Sales Taxes? Doesn't exactly make up 50% of my income.
 
haymarket said:
Where did you read that I was talking about dice in those numbers? You connected two different paragraphs. You should note that a paragraph break and change sometimes indicates that the thought has been switched or changed. I was simply showing that what you labeled something did not change what it actually is. And it was wisely point out to you that the word dice refers to a plural meaning more than one.
Click to expand...

Actually I failed to understand the reference to SIX and the multiple ways it could be arrived at by arithmetic.

Either way - you lose..... rolling snake eyes. ;)
Click to expand...

Depends…I developed a betting strategy called a ‘Tunica three-way’. It consists of a whirl, field and pass line bet of equal units on the come out roll. IF a 2, snake eyes, is rolled I lose the pass line, win double on the field and 30-1 payout on the whirl so technically I win a net $25 on a $15 bet…but I digress.
 
Not sure where my other reply went so im just gunna make this one quick:

EAT THE RICH! - YouTube

Simple...Explains that if we taxed the rich 100% it wouldn't run the government for a year(well give or take 1min). Anybody that wants to see the math can just watch the video[only 9 min]. But now lets say the government did all that and we were on year 2. The 1% became part of the 100%(Poor).
PM me for any questions = )
 
Catawba said:
Nope, small businesses can only deduct their business expenses, they have to pay full tax rates on their business earnings.
Click to expand...

Okay. What does that have to do with capital gains? As far as I know, everyone gets a lower rate on long term investments.


cpwill said:
My uncle is rich. State, Local, Federal, etc; he loses about 50 cents of every dollar he makes to one government or another.

I'm not rich. In fact, I've spent pretty much my entire working life thus far below the median income. I get more money back every year than I pay in taxes. Our tax system for me is an income.

I'm pretty sure, as far as our respective tax-paying duties, one of us is skating, and the other one isn't...
Click to expand...

That's been my real life experience. It confuses me when I come here and people act like our tax system is set up so the poor pay all the money and the rich get all their money back. Even when my parents we're making a decent income, tax day was still a paycheck for the family.


Ipast said:
So does the middleclass and they are far less able to afford it. Middleclass and low income earners pay every single tax and duty and fee your rich uncle pays...gasoline taxs, sales taxs at all the SAME RATE as your uncle....your rich uncle is asked to pay more in income tax because he has it all....and he should...just like I do an all others should
Click to expand...

Are you implying we base the gasoline and sales tax on income? That seems silly, doesn't it?

Ultimately, if the taxes are too much of a burden, you have a choice not to purchase the goods. Of course, those taxes usually work out to be around 6-10% of the cost of whatever you bought, so unless you're spending 90% of your yearly income on taxable goods it's unlikely that such a tax would be that large of a share of your income.
 
Henrin said:
It lost me on where that matters.
Click to expand...

It matters to the tens of millions of people that are living at or below the poverty line despite working much much harder than the rich people sitting around enjoying life that didn't earn it... that is why it matters.
 
cpwill said:
My uncle is rich. State, Local, Federal, etc; he loses about 50 cents of every dollar he makes to one government or another.
I'm not rich. In fact, I've spent pretty much my entire working life thus far below the median income. I get more money back every year than I pay in taxes. Our tax system for me is an income.
I'm pretty sure, as far as our respective tax-paying duties, one of us is skating, and the other one isn't...
Click to expand...
Does the military pay FICA?
((FICA is 7.45% of gross income for most people.))
If "yes" did you deduct those FICA contributions from your "refund"?



I also have to wonder how many military perks are not represented on the 1040.

I'm not saying you don't deserve the perks as a member of the military but you may not represent an average person's pay reporting process and/or deductions.

I'm sure exceptions can be found in every system - like GE completely skating on taxes one year, of which waaaay too many people made an issue - military compensation may be one of those cases.
 
Last edited:
cpwill said:
The middle class is generally skating. Gasoline taxes? Sales Taxes? Doesn't exactly make up 50% of my income.
Click to expand...
According to your own chart your uncle must be a very rare exception to the rule ...

cpwill said:
Average_Tax_Rates.png
Click to expand...
Maybe he should consider another accountant?

Or maybe someone is fiddling with numbers to make it look worse than it is??
 
Republic Now! said:
Ultimately, if the taxes are too much of a burden, you have a choice not to purchase the goods. Of course, those taxes usually work out to be around 6-10% of the cost of whatever you bought, so unless you're spending 90% of your yearly income on taxable goods it's unlikely that such a tax would be that large of a share of your income.
Click to expand...
Food and gasoline make up a very large part of a poor person's expenses.
 
Republic Now! said:
As far as I know, everyone gets a lower rate on long term investments.
Click to expand...

Only because we (the voters) have allowed it. Capital gains have been taxed the same as earned income in the past, and they can be again in the future, depending on the results of the elections.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Food and gasoline make up a very large part of a poor person's expenses.
Click to expand...

Most food isn't taxed. Gasoline makes up a good part, but certainly not a crippling part, and gas is always something you can manage yourself.

Catawba said:
Only because we (the voters) have allowed it. Capital gains have been taxed the same as earned income in the past, and they can be again in the future, depending on the results of the elections.
Click to expand...

So are you giving up the "rich pay less" shtick?
 
MoSurveyor said:
If they get back $2k from income taxes (I presume you're talking about the EIC?) but loose $2.5k to FICA that's still paying out $500.
Click to expand...

I will need a real world example.

Are or will your IRA and 401k payouts be welfare?
Click to expand...

I think the stupid there just gave me a tumor.

We were talking about SS. If you can't defend SS changing the topic is what I expected from you. Can you not defend it?
 
Last edited:
Bodhisattva said:
It matters to the tens of millions of people that are living at or below the poverty line despite working much much harder than the rich people sitting around enjoying life that didn't earn it... that is why it matters.
Click to expand...

Can a group of individuals take from another to manufacture the life they desire?

You see, I don't think your point has much worth here.
 
Last edited:
Republic Now! said:
So are you giving up the "rich pay less" shtick?
Click to expand...

The rich who's income is primarily from investment earnings pay a lower percentage of their total income, then do the working class that have to pay taxes on their total income.
 
Catawba said:
Only because we (the voters) have allowed it. Capital gains have been taxed the same as earned income in the past, and they can be again in the future, depending on the results of the elections.
Click to expand...

What a backwards way to think of property. You don't allow people to keep what they own since you don't have ownership of it.
 
Henrin said:
What a backwards way to think of property. You don't allow people to keep what they own since you don't have ownership of it.
Click to expand...

Actually, the people can indeed decide what they will allow others to keep and what they will not allow them to keep. This is done through a policy of taxation. Its rather common.
 
haymarket said:
Actually, the people can indeed decide what they will allow others to keep and what they will not allow them to keep. This is done through a policy of taxation. Its rather common.
Click to expand...

Ignoring my earlier statement I see..

Can a group of individuals take from another to manufacture the life they desire?
Click to expand...

The fact is they can not or else they are violating the rights of others.
 
Henrin said:
Ignoring my earlier statement I see..



The fact is they can not or else they are violating the rights of others.
Click to expand...

I hope these sort of posts mean something to you because I read the and say "what the ........????"
 
MoSurveyor said:
Does the military pay FICA?
((FICA is 7.45% of gross income for most people.))
If "yes" did you deduct those FICA contributions from your "refund"?



I also have to wonder how many military perks are not represented on the 1040.

I'm not saying you don't deserve the perks as a member of the military but you may not represent an average person's pay reporting process and/or deductions.

I'm sure exceptions can be found in every system - like GE completely skating on taxes one year, of which waaaay too many people made an issue - military compensation may be one of those cases.
Click to expand...

I'm all for FICA reform. Especially since it's no longer doing what it was meant to do.

The rich who's income is primarily from investment earnings pay a lower percentage of their total income, then do the working class that have to pay taxes on their total income.
Click to expand...

Any whose income is primarily from investment will pay less than someone making a comparable amount in income, not just the rich.

While I can see the rationale behind your statement (the rich will inevitably make more from investment), I'm not quite sure I agree with the notion of charging high rates on long term investment.

Just for clarity, historical capital gains rates can be found here.
 
cpwill said:
The middle class is generally skating. Gasoline taxes? Sales Taxes? Doesn't exactly make up 50% of my income.
Click to expand...

skating my arse...and sales tax, gas tax, state income taxs , and fees amount to far higher percentage of a person making 50k income than it does a multimillionaire....you conservatives have seriously gone mad...
 
haymarket said:
I hope these sort of posts mean something to you because I read the and say "what the ........????"
Click to expand...

Can a group of individuals take from another to manufacture the life they desire?
Click to expand...

Answer the question. IS it a violation of someones rights to take from them to manufacture a better life for yourself? Yes or No. Take note that I know why you are avoiding the question.
 
Last edited:
Catawba said:
The rich who's income is primarily from investment earnings pay a lower percentage of their total income, then do the working class that have to pay taxes on their total income.
Click to expand...

wrong, very few working class people have federal income taxes of an effective rate of 14%
 
lpast said:
skating my arse...and sales tax, gas tax, state income taxs , and fees amount to far higher percentage of a person making 50k income than it does a multimillionaire....you conservatives have seriously gone mad...
Click to expand...

not true-you ignore the fact that the state income taxes really hit the rich as do property taxes and of course the estate/death taxes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom