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Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

  • Yes

    Votes: 58 48.3%
  • No

    Votes: 62 51.7%

  • Total voters
    120
I have had years where I pay that much. And when I don't its not far off that.

You badly underestimate people who are not sipping tea with you at your private club.

Actually I was running a youth athletic event today-14 hours of work, no pay. THough I am a national level Judge, I won't take pay for that. Hardly sipping tea which I don't drink anyway. but if you were paying an effective federal rate of 14% that puts you in the top 3% since Mitt pays a higher effective rate than 97% of America

He also pays more in a year than you will pay in your lifetime and I doubt he uses more in a year than you do in a lifetime or even a couple years since he isn't being paid with tax dollars.
 
All self employed people pay both sides of FICA taxes

Not terribly surprising. I'm betting that means small business owners, who make up the vast majority of our wealthy as well?
 

Ask your M... oh nevermind.
I've been on four other forums, two that closed, one that was boring (all liberals) & one that I'm presently on a volunetary leave, due to a bet. I've always taken advantage of the otions available for font & size (I like to see what I'm writing) & have only been questioned once before, humorously. Maybe because others took advantage of the options also. I've been called a douch & now had the size of my...oh nevermind questioned.
This does seem a uniform lot. This is the last time I'll bother with those intolerant of those who tend to be different. Hurl those insults if you will, I thrive on 'em. :peace

Hitting the "Ctrl" key and the "+" key will increase the size of the entire page, including your and others font.
 
Not terribly surprising. I'm betting that means small business owners, who make up the vast majority of our wealthy as well?
And it also includes people like cab drivers and Mobilteria guys.

Of course, the people making the big bucks (NOT the cabbie or Mobilteria guy) only pay on the first ~$106k of earned income. After that's it's ZERO regardless of how much more you make.

There's is also no FICA for capital gains, either.


According to your little chart here, the people making $50-100k are actually having more taken out of their paychecks than Romney. Is it any wonder people get PO'ed at the rich when they whine about tax rates?

Average_Tax_Rates.png
 
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And it also includes people like cab drivers and Mobilteria guys.

Of course, the people making the big bucks (NOT the cabbie or Mobilteria guy) only pay on the first ~$106k of earned income. After that's it's ZERO regardless of how much more you make.

Unless of course, like most folks making more than that, they are small business owners, in which case they are paying 15.2% on that first $106K, unlike the wide majority of those making less than $106K who are only paying 7.1%?

This is interesting - I'll admit, I had not considered it before. Broadly, the payroll tax might not be as regressive in it's immediate impact as I had thought.

There's is also no FICA for capital gains, either.

and thank goodness. we already have enough tax disincentives to invest in America.
 
I haven't checked recently but I believe that's 7.45% and 14.90%.


It's too bad so much of it isn't invested in America. :(



Ed:
Of course, with the dismal consumer demand investment money really doesn't mean squat right now.
 
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Mitt Romney's Tax Returns Show 13.9% Tax Rate, Highlight Challenges For Wealthy Candidates

"The returns show that Mitt and Ann Romney, who are worth from $190 million to $250 million, earned $21.7 million in 2010 and paid a 13.9 percent tax rate, lower than that of a person earning $50,000. "

Mitt Romney's Tax Returns Show 13.9% Tax Rate, Highlight Challenges For Wealthy Candidates

"Some of the nation’s wealthiest households are paying less in federal income taxes than 99 percent of Pennsylvania taxpayers, according an analysis by the Keystone Research Center and Pennsylvania Budget and Policy Center."

"Examining 2008 IRS tax data for seven of the richest zip codes in the nation and zip codes in Pennsylvania, researchers found that those earning more than $200,000 a year in the seven wealthy zip codes had an average income of more than $2 million but paid a combined average effective tax rate of only 17.2 percent – less than what 99 percent of Pennsylvania taxpayers paid on average."

"Current tax law sets preferential tax rates for investment income, which significantly reduces the effective tax rate for taxpayers whose income is largely, or primarily, from investments rather than wages."

Pennsylvanians Pay Higher Tax Rates Than Many of America
 
Mitt Romney's Tax Returns Show 13.9% Tax Rate, Highlight Challenges For Wealthy Candidates

"The returns show that Mitt and Ann Romney, who are worth from $190 million to $250 million, earned $21.7 million in 2010 and paid a 13.9 percent tax rate, lower than that of a person earning $50,000. "

Mitt Romney's Tax Returns Show 13.9% Tax Rate, Highlight Challenges For Wealthy Candidates

"Some of the nation’s wealthiest households are paying less in federal income taxes than 99 percent of Pennsylvania taxpayers, according an analysis by the Keystone Research Center and Pennsylvania Budget and Policy Center."

"Examining 2008 IRS tax data for seven of the richest zip codes in the nation and zip codes in Pennsylvania, researchers found that those earning more than $200,000 a year in the seven wealthy zip codes had an average income of more than $2 million but paid a combined average effective tax rate of only 17.2 percent – less than what 99 percent of Pennsylvania taxpayers paid on average."

"Current tax law sets preferential tax rates for investment income, which significantly reduces the effective tax rate for taxpayers whose income is largely, or primarily, from investments rather than wages."

Pennsylvanians Pay Higher Tax Rates Than Many of America

They are capital gains taxes. They are taxed at a lower rate than other forms of income. It's also important to point out that these low tax rates only apply to long-term investments.
 
Daggum. Double-dipping with that nice pension must be paying better than I thought.

Where did I indicate that the source of my income was solely from a pension?
 
They are capital gains taxes. They are taxed at a lower rate than other forms of income. It's also important to point out that these low tax rates only apply to long-term investments.

And those discriminatory and preferential rates should be ended.
 
Actually I was running a youth athletic event today-14 hours of work, no pay. THough I am a national level Judge, I won't take pay for that. Hardly sipping tea which I don't drink anyway. but if you were paying an effective federal rate of 14% that puts you in the top 3% since Mitt pays a higher effective rate than 97% of America

He also pays more in a year than you will pay in your lifetime and I doubt he uses more in a year than you do in a lifetime or even a couple years since he isn't being paid with tax dollars.

If we could put aside the self serving PR promotion that is suppose to give your views some sort of respectability and nobility - usage is not the issue - never was and that red herring is something that even you admit is impossible to prove.

Of course he pays more actual dollars than me. That is because he makes hundreds of times what I make. Damn well right and proper he pays more.
 
They are capital gains taxes. They are taxed at a lower rate than other forms of income. It's also important to point out that these low tax rates only apply to long-term investments.

the only consistency we get from the far left is wanting more taxes taken from those who are more industrious than they are. They ignore the sound reasons why LTCG or dividend income is taxed at a lower rate
 
If we could put aside the self serving PR promotion that is suppose to give your views some sort of respectability and nobility - usage is not the issue - never was and that red herring is something that even you admit is impossible to prove.

Of course he pays more actual dollars than me. That is because he makes hundreds of times what I make. Damn well right and proper he pays more.

why is that right? he doesn't pay anymore than you do for a car or a pair of shorts. You again assume that making more necessarily means he ought to pay more. True, that is the law but that doesn't make it philosophically correct
 
And those discriminatory and preferential rates should be ended.

there is your major fail. Those rates are not discriminatory. THe real discrimination is your call for the rich to pay more taxes in areas where a progressive rate is not appropriate.

What is discriminatory is the tax on earned income where the rich keep far less than the middle class
 
If we could put aside the self serving PR promotion that is suppose to give your views some sort of respectability and nobility - usage is not the issue - never was and that red herring is something that even you admit is impossible to prove.

Of course he pays more actual dollars than me. That is because he makes hundreds of times what I make. Damn well right and proper he pays more.

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
 
the only consistency we get from the far left is wanting more taxes taken from those who are more industrious than they are. They ignore the sound reasons why LTCG or dividend income is taxed at a lower rate

It takes nearly ZERO INDUSTRIOUSNESS to cash a check for capital gains revenues.

It is easy to ignore what is never presented by you.
 
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson

"Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat."

Bullwinkle Moose
 
there is your major fail. Those rates are not discriminatory. THe real discrimination is your call for the rich to pay more taxes in areas where a progressive rate is not appropriate.

What is discriminatory is the tax on earned income where the rich keep far less than the middle class

The rates are NOT discriminatory? Really? And somehow someway you deny the reality that a million dollar income in wages gets a tax rate of almost 35% but a million dollars in capital gains gets a tax rate of 15% and that is somehow someway not preferential nor discriminatory?

Amazing!!!!!

An you further deny that when one gets one million dollars in inheritance and the pay ZERO tax upon tht same one million dollars that nice little massage to the behind of the wealthy is not somehow someway preferential or discriminatory?

That is even more AMAZING!!!!!!!
 
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It takes nearly ZERO INDUSTRIOUSNESS to cash a check for capital gains revenues.

That is correct. It also takes nearly zero industriousness to cash a check for building a boat, or doing an audit, or painting a building. Not really sure why you thought this a point worth making.


What does take industriousness, mind you, is working over a period of time and building up savings, which you then have to spend time and energy investing in productive venues so as to not lose them.
 
The rates are NOT discriminatory? Really? And somehow someway you deny the reality that a million dollar income in wages gets a tax rate of almost 35% but a million dollars in capital gains gets a tax rate of 15% and that is somehow someway not preferential nor discriminatory?

Amazing!!!!!

An you further deny that when one gets one million dollars in inheritance and the pay ZERO tax upon tht same one million dollars that nice little massage to the behind of the wealthy is not somehow someway preferential or discriminatory?

That is even more AMAZING!!!!!!!

:) well I"m happy you are amazed at the wonder of our modern society. But as we pointed out in that long-drawn-out bit on the death/estate/whatever tax, there are lots of ways in which parents pass on wealth to their children. As I recall, you were fine with discrimination so long as it was for things of which you approved (education, cars, etc.).
 
The rates are NOT discriminatory? Really? And somehow someway you deny the reality that a million dollar income in wages gets a tax rate of almost 35% but a million dollars in capital gains gets a tax rate of 15% and that is somehow someway not preferential nor discriminatory?

Amazing!!!!!

An you further deny that when one gets one million dollars in inheritance and the pay ZERO tax upon tht same one million dollars that nice little massage to the behind of the wealthy is not somehow someway preferential or discriminatory?

That is even more AMAZING!!!!!!!

And yet two "regular" working citizens, at the same job, for the same hourly wage, working side by side SHOULD have different IRS tax bills because? To discuss "fair" taxation, one must first define "fair" taxation; is that NOT a single rate or percentage of each citizen's income, from ALL sources, after a reasonable but EQUAL "standard" deduction? When the family farmland is passed along, from father to son, just how much of that land should be ceded to the gov't in taxes?
 
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That is correct. It also takes nearly zero industriousness to cash a check for building a boat, or doing an audit, or painting a building. Not really sure why you thought this a point worth making.


What does take industriousness, mind you, is working over a period of time and building up savings, which you then have to spend time and energy investing in productive venues so as to not lose them.

Allow me to elaborate and connect the dots for you since the obvious implication seems to have escaped you. The person who labors for their check, has earned that check with their own industry. Many people who get checks for long term capital gains are merely cashing the check and they did absolutely nothing to earn it in any way shape or form. They got it through a pure accident of birth. They earned nothing.
 
:) well I"m happy you are amazed at the wonder of our modern society. But as we pointed out in that long-drawn-out bit on the death/estate/whatever tax, there are lots of ways in which parents pass on wealth to their children. As I recall, you were fine with discrimination so long as it was for things of which you approved (education, cars, etc.).

Please do feel free to back up your claims with my words by providing quotes.

Your so called "recall" is not going to suffice.
 
Allow me to elaborate and connect the dots for you since the obvious implication seems to have escaped you. The person who labors for their check, has earned that check with their own industry. Many people who get checks for long term capital gains are merely cashing the check and they did absolutely nothing to earn it in any way shape or form. They got it through a pure accident of birth. They earned nothing.

This is NOT true for a 401K plan because? This is NOT true for inheriting the family farmland because? When you sell your house, the "capital gain" should NOT be taxed, in the year of the sale, because?
 
You seem to be missing the point.

This was in response to an earlier poster

from TurtleDude
the only consistency we get from the far left is wanting more taxes taken from those who are more industrious than they are. They ignore the sound reasons why LTCG or dividend income is taxed at a lower rate

My response which was


It takes nearly ZERO INDUSTRIOUSNESS to cash a check for capital gains revenues.

The whole point of my comment was it sets my teeth on edge when I read the utterly screaming hypocrisy of trust fund babies whining and bitching about a lack of INDUSTRIOUSNESS in others simply because they have the luck of birth to cash those checks which they did absolutely nothing to earn.

Are we clear on the context of that now?
 
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