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Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

  • Yes

    Votes: 58 48.3%

  • No

    Votes: 62 51.7%
  • Total voters
    120
ttwtt78640 said:
Nonsense. Texas has a state sales tax 8.25% (base rate) and NO state income tax. Many things are not taxed, e.g. FOOD, many "used" goods and labor. It is not regressive, it is flat, with food exempt so it CAN be progressive, since the rich do not eat much more than the poor do. The rich pay far more tax on a Lincoln or Hummer than the poor do on a good used pickup truck or even a new Yugo.
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That helps explain why, "Texas ranks 6th in terms of people living in poverty." but it doesn't do much to make your case that sales taxes don't affect the poor more than the rich.
Poverty grows in Rick Perry's Texas - Sep. 18, 2011

The poor and the working class spend a much higher percentage of their income on buying things, so under a consumption tax they are paying a higher percentage of their income on taxes than are the rich.
 
I heard an intresting statistic today. The top 400 tax payers in America pay as much as the bottom 50% in taxes
 
SgtRock said:
I heard an intresting statistic today. The top 400 tax payers in America pay as much as the bottom 50% in taxes
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No doubt since the bottom 50% don't have jobs thanks to GOP policy for the last decade.
 
OscarB63 said:
and yet a $5 dollar pack of cigarettes has $1.01 federal tax, not to mention state and local taxes. and people still smoke. same for alcohol, embedded fed/state/local taxes have done little to discourage their consumption.

If you eliminate all consumption taxes...where is that revenue going to be made up from???? oh...that's right from increasing income/investment/etc taxes on the rich.
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Sin taxes cover but a fraction of what those vices cost society. Who wants to get rid of them? Smoking is declining at least in part from those taxes.

Regressive taxes are self=defeating as they steal from the GDP by reducing spending. The best source of revenue in a consumer economy is income NOT spent. That's why progressive taxes encourage growth and prosperity. If you desire a stagnant high unemployment economy start taxing those that spend all their income more and see what happens.
 
OscarB63 said:
and yet a $5 dollar pack of cigarettes has $1.01 federal tax, not to mention state and local taxes. and people still smoke. same for alcohol, embedded fed/state/local taxes have done little to discourage their consumption.
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Yet, the pack-and-a-half a day smoker has all but disappeared and the percentage of smokers keeps going down every year. They may never disappear but the added cost obviously decreases usage. If nothing else basic economics will tell you that. Increase the cost of any non-necessary product and the sales figures will fall accordingly.

I'm sure that even with a 100% sales tax you can still sell food - but I would also expect home gardens to suddenly become very popular.

OscarB63 said:
If you eliminate all consumption taxes...where is that revenue going to be made up from???? oh...that's right from increasing income/investment/etc taxes on the rich.
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:roll: So you can only handle one track at a time, huh? I guess that shouldn't surprise me.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Nonsense. Texas has a state sales tax 8.25% (base rate) and NO state income tax. Many things are not taxed, e.g. FOOD, many "used" goods and labor. It is not regressive, it is flat, with food exempt so it CAN be progressive, since the rich do not eat much more than the poor do. The rich pay far more tax on a Lincoln or Hummer than the poor do on a good used pickup truck or even a new Yugo.
Click to expand...

You miss the point entirely, the poor spend all they make so they are charged sales tax on 100% of their income. The wealthy may only spend 15 or 20% of income so they only pay tax on 15 to 20%. 100% vs. 20% and that sounds "fair" to you? Texas would be much better off with a lower sales tax along with an income tax that can tax some of that unspent income of the top brackets.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Nonsense. Texas has a state sales tax 8.25% (base rate) and NO state income tax. Many things are not taxed, e.g. FOOD, many "used" goods and labor. It is not regressive, it is flat, with food exempt so it CAN be progressive, since the rich do not eat much more than the poor do. The rich pay far more tax on a Lincoln or Hummer than the poor do on a good used pickup truck or even a new Yugo.
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Raise sales taxes farther and you'll find mechanics doing more business as people buy fewer new cars.
 
SgtRock said:
I heard an intresting statistic today. The top 400 tax payers in America pay as much as the bottom 50% in taxes
Click to expand...

The best part is that those 400 people paid all that and didn't have to cut back one bit on their lifestyles. They could pay double that and still not feel the pinch. Now the bottom 50%? They are a different story. If they paid one dime more it would have come out of their mouths to feed. Do you get it now?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Nonsense. Texas has a state sales tax 8.25% (base rate)
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Wrong, the state sales tax is:


What tax rate do I use?
The Texas state sales and use tax rate is 6.25%, but local taxing jurisdictions (cities, counties, special purpose districts, and transit authorities) may also impose sales and use tax up to 2% for a total maximum combined rate of 8.25%. You will be required to collect both state and local sales an use tax. For information about the tax rate for a specific area, see Local Sales and Use Tax Rate Information.
For information on collecting and reporting local sales and use tax, ask for publication 94-105 "Guidelines for Collecting Local Sales and Use Tax" (PDF, 9.74MB) For a list of local tax rates ask for publication 96-132 "Texas Sales and Use Tax Rates." We also provide tax rate cards for all combined tax rates.
The tax rate for sales and use taxes are the same. See Purchases/Use Tax for additional information.

FAQ: Texas Sales Tax
 
iguanaman said:
You miss the point entirely, the poor spend all they make so they are charged sales tax on 100% of their income. The wealthy may only spend 15 or 20% of income so they only pay tax on 15 to 20%. 100% vs. 20% and that sounds "fair" to you? Texas would be much better off with a lower sales tax along with an income tax that can tax some of that unspent income of the top brackets.
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does it sound fair that a guy who paid for 4 years of college and 4 years of medical school should be taxed at a higher rate than some guy who graduated HS and went to work at mickey Ds, simply because he makes more?


that's the part you bleeding hearts alway ignore. for the most part (trustfund babies excluded) most of the rich people are rich because they worked harder or smarter to get there.


I was born into a poor family. I worked hard and got good grades in HS and got academic scholarships to help pay for college. I worked a full time job and worked my class schedule around my job. Is it fair for me to pay to support some guy who had the same opportunities as I and chose not to take advantage of them
 
falling_tax_rates.png


Only Little People Pay Taxes | Mother Jones
 
Dickieboy said:
What EXACTLY is the point you are making with this post?
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It addresses the OP, showing that the rich have received far greater tax rate cuts than the lower classes.
 
OscarB63 said:
does it sound fair that a guy who paid for 4 years of college and 4 years of medical school should be taxed at a higher rate than some guy who graduated HS and went to work at mickey Ds, simply because he makes more?


that's the part you bleeding hearts alway ignore. for the most part (trustfund babies excluded) most of the rich people are rich because they worked harder or smarter to get there.

I was born into a poor family. I worked hard and got good grades in HS and got academic scholarships to help pay for college. I worked a full time job and worked my class schedule around my job. Is it fair for me to pay to support some guy who had the same opportunities as I and chose not to take advantage of them
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I don't ignore anything. I've explained that our economy is dependant on progressive taxes for growth that benefits all. Yes it's a real bitch that someone with a million dollar income should pay $400,000 in taxes but that still leaves him more than most make in a decade. How much reward do you need?. And that money goes back to work in the economy, creating jobs and building infrastucture. Those who believe they are an island will be quite surprised when they find their empires crumbling along the economy.
 
iguanaman said:
The best part is that those 400 people paid all that and didn't have to cut back one bit on their lifestyles. They could pay double that and still not feel the pinch. Now the bottom 50%? They are a different story. If they paid one dime more it would have come out of their mouths to feed. Do you get it now?
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No I don't get it, I am in the bottom 50%. I do not think its fair to ask those top 400 to pay more than their fair share. For instance if one of those 400 lives in NY city. They will pay almost 60% of their income in taxes. That means that for 7 months of the year everything they earn will go towards taxes. And people like you want them to pay more. get real.
 
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The Poor Lives of Rich People

large.jpg


"If one thing is clear about rich people, it's not that their lives are any easier than the rest of ours. In fact, if anything, it's hard to have money. Really hard. Bloomberg's Max Abelson recently interviewed a bunch of Wall Street folks who got smaller bonuses this year, and as their comments indicate, more money either really does mean more problems, or it means that a wealthy person's sense of reality is just that much further off. Certainly, the expectation of more money when one is getting less money -- Goldman Sachs and Barclay's, for example, both cut discretionary pay at least 25 percent for 2011 -- really makes rich people say the craziest things!

For example:

* “I feel stuck,” [director of marketing for broker-dealer Euro Pacific Capital Inc. Andrew] Schiff said. “The New York that I wanted to have is still just beyond my reach.” How so? "Paid a lower bonus, he said the $350,000 he earns, enough to put him in the country’s top 1 percent by income, doesn’t cover his family’s private-school tuition, a Kent, Connecticut, summer rental and the upgrade they would like from their 1,200-square- foot Brooklyn duplex."

* “People who don’t have money don’t understand the stress,” said Alan Dlugash, a partner at accounting firm Marks Paneth & Shron LLP in New York who specializes in financial planning for the wealthy. “Could you imagine what it’s like to say I got three kids in private school, I have to think about pulling them out? How do you do that?”

* “It’s a disaster,” said Ilana Weinstein, chief executive officer of New York-based search firm IDW Group LLC. “The entire construct of compensation has changed.”

"The one thing that might mitigate this would be for rich folks to move to what would seem to be the next human level of thinking: Oh, if I have it bad, someone poorer must have it really bad. It doesn't seem that is happening, at least not here (nor in attempts to say poor people are actually doing great). Maybe that sort of public acknowledgment is too much to hope for, given that rich people also apparently like to take candy from babies. It's psychology, they can't help it! Poor things.

The Poor Lives of Rich People - Entertainment - The Atlantic Wire
 
proud2Bcatholic said:
The smart thing to do on taxes is to tax consumption, not earnings.

The Income Taxed should be abolished and a national sales tax should be esablished.

Punishing wage earner punishes the economy as a whole
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iguanaman said:
LOL You want to "punish" consumers for buying in a economy that is 75 % consumer spending. ............
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Almost every state already has a sales tax, you pinhead. Plus we have gas taxes and all sorts of product specific taxes.

Eliminating the Income Tax and replacing it with a national sales tax will have the added benefits making sure everyone pays, eliminating loopholes, and getting rid of the IRS
 
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iguanaman said:
You miss the point entirely, the poor spend all they make so they are charged sales tax on 100% of their income. The wealthy may only spend 15 or 20% of income so they only pay tax on 15 to 20%. 100% vs. 20% and that sounds "fair" to you? Texas would be much better off with a lower sales tax along with an income tax that can tax some of that unspent income of the top brackets.
Click to expand...
Actually Texas is doing just fine the way it is. Many other states wish they were doing as well.
The real advantage in Texas is that even a modest income couple can afford a house, if they want.
A progressive tax on is always wrong, as it discourages success.
A progressive tax on income is doubling down on a bad idea.
To me it helps to think of government like a casino, in that no matter what jobs they
bring, the cost to the economy is greater than the jobs created, "the House always wins.".
(I know that rural casinos located outside metro areas move money to those areas.)
 
Poor person cant pay bills or afford food...pays nothing, low income earner doesnt make enough to pay for basic necessities works full time...pays little to nothing. Middle class full time worker makes 50k pays 10% upper middleclass person makes 300k pays 25%
Mitt Romney makes 200,000,000 pays 13%...Ge made 14,000,000,000,900,000 paid Nothing....who pays the most, whos not paying enough.
 
Catawba said:
The Poor Lives of Rich People

"If one thing is clear about rich people, it's not that their lives are any easier than the rest of ours. In fact, if anything, it's hard to have money. Really hard. Bloomberg's Max Abelson recently interviewed a bunch of Wall Street folks who got smaller bonuses this year, and as their comments indicate, more money either really does mean more problems, or it means that a wealthy person's sense of reality is just that much further off. Certainly, the expectation of more money when one is getting less money -- Goldman Sachs and Barclay's, for example, both cut discretionary pay at least 25 percent for 2011 -- really makes rich people say the craziest things!

For example:

* “I feel stuck,” [director of marketing for broker-dealer Euro Pacific Capital Inc. Andrew] Schiff said. “The New York that I wanted to have is still just beyond my reach.” How so? "Paid a lower bonus, he said the $350,000 he earns, enough to put him in the country’s top 1 percent by income, doesn’t cover his family’s private-school tuition, a Kent, Connecticut, summer rental and the upgrade they would like from their 1,200-square- foot Brooklyn duplex."

* “People who don’t have money don’t understand the stress,” said Alan Dlugash, a partner at accounting firm Marks Paneth & Shron LLP in New York who specializes in financial planning for the wealthy. “Could you imagine what it’s like to say I got three kids in private school, I have to think about pulling them out? How do you do that?”

* “It’s a disaster,” said Ilana Weinstein, chief executive officer of New York-based search firm IDW Group LLC. “The entire construct of compensation has changed.”

"The one thing that might mitigate this would be for rich folks to move to what would seem to be the next human level of thinking: Oh, if I have it bad, someone poorer must have it really bad. It doesn't seem that is happening, at least not here (nor in attempts to say poor people are actually doing great). Maybe that sort of public acknowledgment is too much to hope for, given that rich people also apparently like to take candy from babies. It's psychology, they can't help it! Poor things.

The Poor Lives of Rich People - Entertainment - The Atlantic Wire
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And I guess this also 'addresses the OP, showing that the rich have received far greater tax rate cuts than the lower classes'. How?

I would appear to be a fluff piece to promote envy and resentment toward those who are better off. Would this not increase the divide that the ‘right’ is persistently accused of? And this helps how?
 
proud2Bcatholic said:
Almost every state already has a sales tax, you pinhead. Plus we have gas taxes and all sorts of product specific taxes.

Eliminating the Income Tax and replacing it with a national sales tax will have the added benefits making sure everyone pays, eliminating loopholes, and getting rid of the IRS
Click to expand...

exactly, rich people spend more money than poor people. a national sales tax would actually increase the amount that the rich pay...that should make the "they don't pay their fair share" bed-wetters happy.
 
OscarB63 said:
exactly, rich people spend more money than poor people. a national sales tax would actually increase the amount that the rich pay...that should make the "they don't pay their fair share" bed-wetters happy.
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Stop being naive. The wealthy barely spend 20% of their incomes so 80% would be TAX FREE. How much of your income do you spend? How much will be taxed?
Taxing income that would be spent in the economy is self defeating. Taxing income not spent is the key to growth.
 
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iguanaman said:
Stop being naive. The wealthy barely spend 20% of their incomes so 80% would be TAX FREE. How much of your income do you spend? How much will be taxed?
Taxing income that would be spent in the economy is self defeating. Taxing income not spent is the key to growth.
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you are the one being naive. that 20% they spend is many times the amount I spend in actual real dollars. the fact that you make such arguments is proof that you don't give a rat's ass about what's "fair"...you just want to punish the rich because they make more than you do.

and as far as "growth"...when that growth is in the form of bigger govt, more entitlement programs, etc...we can do without that.
 
iguanaman said:
Sales taxes are REgressive since they impact the poor far more than the rich. That's what you would "like" I guess. What makes you idolize the wealthy? Are they super-human or something?
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Super-human means divine. This unquestioning worship of the rich by their flunkies and peasants is a modern substitute for religion. The GOPers support religion because it instills a self-denying worshipful mood, which they can then get their flocks to transfer to the economic gods.
 
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