• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

  • Yes

    Votes: 58 48.3%

  • No

    Votes: 62 51.7%
  • Total voters
    120
PirateMk1 said:
I just pasted from WIKI which I cited in the little bracket thingies. If you have a problem take it up with them. I believe the assumption was that people knew of the admendment process. You know what they say about assuming.
Click to expand...
I take it up with you.

Hell, if copy/paste is all you can do then post a link next time and we'll click for ourselves. :cool:
 
Last edited:
Gipper said:
Haha!

So you'd believe words by Henry Paulson, Bush's Secretary of the Treasury and CEO of Goldman Sachs (ever so slight conflict of interest there), because he was in a Presidential Cabinet? Or does he just get dismissed because he served under an elected official you do not agree with?

You might want to wipe off that kool-aid mustache and expand further on your opinions here. I'm listening.
Click to expand...

Let's see how your bio stacks up against Bruce Bartlett. Here is his bio:

Bruce Bartlett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your turn now! Let's see your bio.
 
MoSurveyor said:
MINE was, that doesn't mean most investment income went the same route. I'm sure somewhere back in the dawn of time it was all earned but you could be talking generations ago.


Besides, what does it matter? My earning get taxed. Then I buy stuff and it's taxed, again. Then the company I bought from gets the profit taxed. AND?

Money circulates and when it changes hands it gets taxed. That's the way the it works. :shrug:
Click to expand...

But MANY taxation rates vary. The sales tax rate on food is ZERO, yet for a shirt it is 8.25%, for liquor 11.25%. So what if the rate for investment income is different. Some people even get a NEGATIVE income tax rate (EITC), yet you do not complain about that being "unfair". Exxon gets 6.2 cents per gallon of gasoline in profit (after paying all of the expenses to get from the under the ground and to the gas pump), the federal tax on that same gallon of gasoline is 42 cents, is that "fair"?
 
Last edited:
MoSurveyor said:
Or more likely your employer will start looking for your replacement and show you the door when he finds it.
Click to expand...

If you are sorry employee that just plain sucks, then you are correct. If you bust your ass and help the company be profitable, then the employer would be an idiot. It is very hard these days to get good employees, its one of the reasons I don't employ people. I really do wish it was a bit easier to find them. Its not the experiance or training aspect those are easily rectified. Its the attitude. Very few people anymore have got the attitude I consider nessary for success. I want my cutomers who use me to be extremly satisfied with the service they recieve. I dont want the level of service I provide to drop off when I am not there. I have tried before and have doubled the industy standard wages ( about $40 hr.) I still had to sift wheat from chaff. You have to have patience to go through the fools to get real gold. I dont have it. Its easier for me to use contractors and if they suck just not use them. If an employer is so stupid as to rid themselfs of a good employee I can assure you that employee WILL be appreaciated elsewhere.
 
MoSurveyor said:
I take it up with you.

Hell, if copy/paste is all you can do then post a link next time and we'll click for ourselves. :cool:
Click to expand...

I see you have. I provided info in the post as a courtesy. If you dont like it tough. Now kindly go piss in the wind you cranky bastard.:hitsfan::smash:
 
ttwtt78640 said:
But MANY taxation rates vary. The sales tax rate on food is ZERO, yet for a shirt it is 8.25%, for liquor 11.25%. So what if the rate for investment income is different. Some people even get a NEGATIVE income tax rate (EITC), yet you do not complain about that being "unfair". Exxon gets 6.2 cents per gallon of gasoline in profit (after paying all of the expenses to get it there), the federal tax on that same gallon of gasoline is 42 cents, is that "fair"?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't use that ZERO too much because in other places sales taxes are all the same.

Why should investment income be treated any differently than any other kind of income? If I bet on RED instead of IBM my winnings get taxed the same as any other kind of income. What makes betting on IBM so special?

Is it fair that we pay for our road maintenance using the amount of gasoline we purchase? But that's exactly the kind of system many people - like TD - want to see for everything! In this case I agree with TD. Using a fuel tax to pay for road maintenance has a certain symmetry to it that I like. :)
 
PirateMk1 said:
I see you have. I provided info in the post as a courtesy. If you dont like it tough. Now kindly go piss in the wind you cranky bastard.
Click to expand...
It's common to use the quote tags if you copy paste - followed by a link to the quote. N00b!!!!
 
PirateMk1 said:
If you are sorry employee that just plain sucks, then you are correct. If you bust your ass and help the company be profitable, then the employer would be an idiot. It is very hard these days to get good employees, its one of the reasons I don't employ people. I really do wish it was a bit easier to find them. Its not the experiance or training aspect those are easily rectified. Its the attitude. Very few people anymore have got the attitude I consider nessary for success. I want my cutomers who use me to be extremly satisfied with the service they recieve. I dont want the level of service I provide to drop off when I am not there. I have tried before and have doubled the industy standard wages ( about $40 hr.) I still had to sift wheat from chaff. You have to have patience to go through the fools to get real gold. I dont have it. Its easier for me to use contractors and if they suck just not use them. If an employer is so stupid as to rid themselfs of a good employee I can assure you that employee WILL be appreaciated elsewhere.
Click to expand...
You seem to think all employees suck. My point has been made, thank you.
 
the world is governed by global firms ,it must be an enough answer
 
MoSurveyor said:
I wouldn't use that ZERO too much because in other places sales taxes are all the same.

Why should investment income be treated any differently than any other kind of income? If I bet on RED instead of IBM my winnings get taxed the same as any other kind of income. What makes betting on IBM so special?

Is it fair that we pay for our road maintenance using the amount of gasoline we purchase? But that's exactly the kind of system many people - like TD - want to see for everything! In this case I agree with TD. Using a fuel tax to pay for road maintenance has a certain symmetry to it that I like. :)
Click to expand...

WRONG. If you win less than $600 on RED you get it instantly, anonymously and tax free, just like for a lottery scratch-off ticket. Try that with an IBM bet.
 
MoSurveyor said:
It's common to use the quote tags if you copy paste - followed by a link to the quote. N00b!!!!
Click to expand...

:doh:roll: Thanks for the tip. If you bother to pay attention, you would notice I am a noob.:2wave:
 
MoSurveyor said:
You seem to think all employees suck. My point has been made, thank you.
Click to expand...

You seem to have a problem with your reading comprehension. I suggest you try again. :) The whole point of an employee is to make a profit. If you cant make a profit with an employee you arent gona be in business long. I have a service buisness, I pride myself in the level of service I provide. I WILL NOT see it drop off because I have an employee. If I cant find an employee that can do it to MY standards then I wont hire one. Thats how get and KEEP my customers. Bottom line not ALL employees suck. Just most of em.:lol:
 
ttwtt78640 said:
WRONG. If you win less than $600 on RED you get it instantly, anonymously and tax free, just like for a lottery scratch-off ticket. Try that with an IBM bet.
Click to expand...
WRONG!

You're still supposed to report that as income. If you don't report it as income then you are breaking the law. Sorry, just because many people do it a lot doesn't mean it's legal.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Same old TD. Poor little rich me! :2bigcry:
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about me-I was talking about those who think others ought to pay for what you want. I certainly don't demand that you pay for what I use. I don't impose costs on you so why do you feel that you are entitled to make others pay to fund your existence?
 
TurtleDude said:
I wasn't talking about me-I was talking about those who think others ought to pay for what you want. I certainly don't demand that you pay for what I use. I don't impose costs on you so why do you feel that you are entitled to make others pay to fund your existence?
Click to expand...

The hell you don't! As just one example you are supporting the candidate that want's to spend more of taxpayers money on the military than the rest of the world combined to increase the riches of the 1%.
 
TurtleDude said:
I wasn't talking about me-I was talking about those who think others ought to pay for what you want. I certainly don't demand that you pay for what I use. I don't impose costs on you so why do you feel that you are entitled to make others pay to fund your existence?
Click to expand...
Of course you're talking about you. Who do you think you're fooling by claiming otherwise? Do you honestly think no one will make the connection that these "others" to whom you refer don't include YOU?!?

Who says you don't impose costs on me? In my view I pay for more than I use and since I don't invest in things that are halfway around the world, and since my wealth is infinitesimal compared to many in this country, I'm pretty sure of exactly what it is I do use. Rich people on the other hand probably do not include how much of MY tax money is being used to protect THEIR investments and THEIR wealth. They shouldn't be so sure of their position. In some people's eyes the rich are as much of a drain on society as any street bum - and in some cases they're more of a drain.
 
Last edited:
TurtleDude said:
I wasn't talking about me-I was talking about those who think others ought to pay for what you want. I certainly don't demand that you pay for what I use. I don't impose costs on you so why do you feel that you are entitled to make others pay to fund your existence?
Click to expand...

So says the self proclaimed "lawyer" who by default profits from tax payer dollars that support the legal/court system.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Why should investment income be treated any differently than any other kind of income? If I bet on RED instead of IBM my winnings get taxed the same as any other kind of income. What makes betting on IBM so special?
Click to expand...

Investing isn't betting.
Gambling is based on randomness and chance, while investing is based on past history and companies ability to earn income.
There is some chance involved, but it's not pure chance, like gambling is.

Investment income is different from wages, there is no guarantee.
This type of income is typically deferred for long periods of time and it rewards greater investment in the economy.
So that the economy can grow.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Investing isn't betting.
Gambling is based on randomness and chance, while investing is based on past history and companies ability to earn income.
There is some chance involved, but it's not pure chance, like gambling is.

Investment income is different from wages, there is no guarantee.
This type of income is typically deferred for long periods of time and it rewards greater investment in the economy.
So that the economy can grow.
Click to expand...

Many see investment as an evil activity of the rich, not as necessary for economic growth. They like buying things made by, and working for corporations, they just want those evil rich folks to share the wealth with them, via gov't handouts, rather than create any more of it. Many go to Walmart and buy tons of Chinese products (to save money) and then complain about all of the jobs going off-shore. Some things, you just can't explain. ;-)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Many see investment as an evil activity of the rich, not as necessary for economic growth. They like buying things made by, and working for corporations, they just want those evil rich folks to share the wealth with them, via gov't handouts, rather than create any more of it. Many go to Walmart and buy tons of Chinese products (to save money) and then complain about all of the jobs going off-shore. Some things, you just can't explain. ;-)
Click to expand...

I think we should make a deal with them.
We'll go along with taxing investments as regular income, as long as they match loss write offs, to the current tax rates and make them refundable.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Investing isn't betting.
Gambling is based on randomness and chance, while investing is based on past history and companies ability to earn income.
There is some chance involved, but it's not pure chance, like gambling is.

Investment income is different from wages, there is no guarantee.
This type of income is typically deferred for long periods of time and it rewards greater investment in the economy.
So that the economy can grow.
Click to expand...
I did use RED as an example earlier but I could just as easily have used "Lucky Lady in the 5th" for betting on a horse and it wouldn't be much different than what you described - past history of both the horse and jockey. :shrug:

I will give you the last bit, though, your winnings are deferred when you gamble on stocks. If you want a fast return you might consider a savings account. CD's also pay with deferred savings but it's still taxed as regular income. Why is that???



I'm not sure we should necessarily give people tax breaks for "investing in the economy" when that economy could just as easily be in China or India. Why should we care if money builds a plant in China to make widgets for Germans or other Chinese?

If you would like a break for American investment then I might see it as reasonable. Otherwise it's just an excuse for some to pay less than others.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I think we should make a deal with them.
We'll go along with taxing investments as regular income, as long as they match loss write offs, to the current tax rates and make them refundable.
Click to expand...
Are you trying to say you can't deduct losses from gains? Or can't defer losses?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Many see investment as an evil activity of the rich, not as necessary for economic growth. They like buying things made by, and working for corporations, they just want those evil rich folks to share the wealth with them, via gov't handouts, rather than create any more of it. Many go to Walmart and buy tons of Chinese products (to save money) and then complain about all of the jobs going off-shore. Some things, you just can't explain. ;-)
Click to expand...
Of course it's necessary for economic growth but there are two problems here. First off, consumer spending is also required for economic growth as almost every business in America is experiencing right now. There's plenty of money for investment but who's expanding? No one because product is stacked up on warehouse shelves now. Secondly, as I noted above, I see no reason to reward investing money in China or India. You want to invest it here at home that's one thing but betting on a Chinese widget manufacturer isn't worth special treatment in America.
 
MoSurveyor said:
I did use RED as an example earlier but I could just as easily have used "Lucky Lady in the 5th" for betting on a horse and it wouldn't be much different than what you described - past history of both the horse and jockey. :shrug:

I will give you the last bit, though, your winnings are deferred when you gamble on stocks. If you want a fast return you might consider a savings account. CD's also pay with deferred savings but it's still taxed as regular income. Why is that???



I'm not sure we should necessarily give people tax breaks for "investing in the economy" when that economy could just as easily be in China or India. Why should we care if money builds a plant in China to make widgets for Germans or other Chinese?

If you would like a break for American investment then I might see it as reasonable. Otherwise it's just an excuse for some to pay less than others.
Click to expand...

Exactly, targeted tax cuts for those actually creating American jobs makes sense. Giving someone a tax cut just because they are rich, is just plain stupid.
 
TurtleDude said:
what were people paying before the new deal
Click to expand...

I really don't know. I've been trying to find information on total taxation between all 3 levels of government through history, and it's hard to find. I've basically given up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom