View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #891
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Hate to tell ya this buddy...but your going to be paying more taxs, even if obama loses. The gop is not going to have both chambers and they just may lose the house
    dream all you want-but its people like you who are ultimately going to take the biggest bath due to out of control spending

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If you want to support your progressive tax dreams with such authority remind me of who could vote under the government Jefferson helped establish.
    Aahhh! So the wetdream of the far right once again shows up here. To return to the good old days when only monied white men could cast their vote and keep the rest of the nation in their thrall.

    Thanks for revealing your true agenda Turtle.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Aahhh! So the wetdream of the far right once again shows up here. To return to the good old days when only monied white men could cast their vote and keep the rest of the nation in their thrall.

    Thanks for revealing your true agenda Turtle.
    another one of your dishonest interpretations-I merely said if you adopt TJ as your white knight in shining armor in your quest to slay the evil moneyed rich, you are going to have to live with all the peasants and slaves he raped on his quest.

  4. #894
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Aahhh! So the wetdream of the far right once again shows up here. To return to the good old days when only monied white men could cast their vote and keep the rest of the nation in their thrall.

    Thanks for revealing your true agenda Turtle.
    The recent swing, in the other direction, is not so good either. Once you have more people that pay less in federal taxes, than they get in federal benefits, the game of democracy is over; look at Greece, for a good example. The argument that we can limit taxation, without limitting gov't spending to match, is the root of the current problem. Making the argument that whatever the masses demand in federal spending, must be paid for ONLY by an ever shrinking number of our "richest" citizens, at an ever higher rate, will lead to economic collapse. We are now at a point that the federal gov't is allowed to borrow and spend far more than it dare ask for by direct taxation; with a totally unsustainable federal deficit rate of 40%. The basis of the latest "Obama plan" is to tax at 18% of GDP, instead of the current 17% of GDP, yet to continue to spend at a rate of 24% of GDP.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-20-12 at 09:47 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    another one of your dishonest interpretations-I merely said if you adopt TJ as your white knight in shining armor in your quest to slay the evil moneyed rich, you are going to have to live with all the peasants and slaves he raped on his quest.
    I never adopted any white knight. You asked a question about progressive taxation and I used the statement by Jefferson to inform and educate you of a proper answer.

    What the rest of your post is all about with slavery and the such is a mystery to me since it has nothing to do with the answer to your question.
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The recent swing, in the other direction, is not so good either. Once you have more people that pay less in federal taxes, than they get in federal benefits, the game of democracy is over; look at Greece, for a good example. The argument that we can limit taxation, without limitting gov't spending to match, is the root of the current problem. Making the argument that whatever the masses demand in federal spending, must be paid for ONLY by an ever shrinking number of our "richest" citizens, at an ever higher rate, will lead to economic collapse. We are now at a point that the federal gov't is allowed to borrow and spend far more than it dare ask for by direct taxation; with a totally unsustainable federal deficit rate of 40%. The basis of the latest "Obama plan" is to tax at 18% of GDP, instead of the current 17% of GDP, yet to continue to spend at a rate of 24% of GDP.
    You bring up several good points. That is why my long standing position has been

    1- All Americans who earn dollar one should pay at least 5% in federal income tax.
    2- all brackets should be raised five points
    3- most deductions should be ended
    4- stop preferential rates for capital gains and inheritance abolishing both and simply declaring those monies as income.
    5- cut at least $300 billion from the federal budget today
    6- have 100% of American earners pay FICA tax on 100% of their earnings instead of just the lower 93% who pay that full load today.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #897
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    [...] look at Greece, for a good example. [...]
    Comparing the USA to Greece is like comparing an Abrams to a Tonka.


    Greece is a poor example - even for Europe.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-20-12 at 11:35 AM.
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  8. #898
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The recent swing, in the other direction, is not so good either. Once you have more people that pay less in federal taxes, than they get in federal benefits, the game of democracy is over; look at Greece, for a good example. The argument that we can limit taxation, without limitting gov't spending to match, is the root of the current problem. Making the argument that whatever the masses demand in federal spending, must be paid for ONLY by an ever shrinking number of our "richest" citizens, at an ever higher rate, will lead to economic collapse. We are now at a point that the federal gov't is allowed to borrow and spend far more than it dare ask for by direct taxation; with a totally unsustainable federal deficit rate of 40%. The basis of the latest "Obama plan" is to tax at 18% of GDP, instead of the current 17% of GDP, yet to continue to spend at a rate of 24% of GDP.
    It's not what the masses demand that controls Fed spending, it's what the economy demands right now to keep things from getting worse than they already are. Fed spending is decreasing, as it was always meant to do after the massive spending required to stop collapse. If the Fed were to "pop the clutch" so to speak, by cutting off all the extra Fed spending at once, the engine would stall again and we'd be back where we started.

    Oh I know, many people think we should have let the whole thing just fail. That may have been one approach from a strictly economic standpoint but it would have played holy hell with the people. One of government's jobs is protecting the people, which includes protection from economic games played by corporations.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-20-12 at 11:54 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #899
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Political reality =/= logical debate. My argument is based on ethics, logic, and rights. I'm not here to argue to the supreme court and I'm well enough aware of the sixteenth amendment. Are you aware of why it was needed?
    Then make a case for ethics, logic, or rights. You are giving me nothing but talking points.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    there again is two fold stupidity in that post

    1) assuming that none of the rich have earned income

    2) pretending that earned income and investment income are the same thing

    another massive bit of dishonesty on your part

    There is only a distinction between the tax rates on earned income and unearned income because the voters allowed it based on the promise that it would create jobs.
    Since it has not produced jobs in this country, it is unlikely voters will continue to allow it, especially when they are being asked to accept lower benefits to continue the tax cuts.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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