View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #501
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    Can anyone explain to me why a flat tax, say 10% of your net income for EVERYONE, from the guy that makes 10k a year to the guy that makes 10 BILLION, why is this not ok? I think that is as fair as you can possibly be. That way everybody has a little meat in the pot and I think more people would care about where their money is being spent in Washington. With 47% of Americans not paying any income tax, what do they care how Washington wastes it? Make them have a little meat in the pot and I promise they would care.
    1) it castrates the power of congress. By making everyone pay the same rate, you cannot buy the votes of the masses by telling them that the government needs more taxes but only the rich will see an increase. Rather, the pimps in office will have to raise everyone's taxes thus costing themselves votes.

    2) if everyone had some skin in the game they might be less likely to cavalierly approve of those pimps wasting so much of our money. That too would castrate the power of congress.

  2. #502
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    where is the first 150 years? where is the data for those who demand most of the government services?

    where are the 47% who don't pay federal income tax

    where are the people who use more services than they pay in taxes


    Right in your head where those strawmen were created I would guess.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #503
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Right in your head where those strawmen were created I would guess.
    you dishonestly ignore the years were we did not have an income tax or where the rates were rather low

    the fact is there is nothing that PROVES that a progressive tax is fair, proper or as American as apple pie. Its a scheme that politicians use to pay for the stuff they use to buy the votes of the many without losing the votes of the many. That it appeals to losers, ne'er do wells and the envious is even better for those pimps in office.

    its time people like you start paying for what you use. Your existence does not benefit me in the least and I derive no positives from having to pay for some of your wants

  4. #504
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your entire premise is based on the assumption that a progressive tax is fair.
    Yeah, the premise of myself and the majority of both parties for most of the last hundred years. It is only a small group of ultra-conservatives who think the progressive tax is unfair.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #505
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    1) it castrates the power of congress. By making everyone pay the same rate, you cannot buy the votes of the masses by telling them that the government needs more taxes but only the rich will see an increase. Rather, the pimps in office will have to raise everyone's taxes thus costing themselves votes.

    2) if everyone had some skin in the game they might be less likely to cavalierly approve of those pimps wasting so much of our money. That too would castrate the power of congress.
    What you say is true. The massive FIT code is a huge "fund raiser" for members of congress, they get paid handsomely to tinker with it. We can't quite call it bribery but it is; if this change is made you will get $$$ from XXX given to your campaign fund, and if you get voted out of office next election YYY will give you ZZZ position at the XYZ lobbying foundation for $$$ per year, for life.

    A simple fix, to keep the rate flat, but to make it politically possible to pass (progressive), is a large 'standard deduction' of say $20,000/year.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-08-12 at 07:20 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #506
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yeah, the premise of myself and the majority of both parties for most of the last hundred years. It is only a small group of ultra-conservatives who think the progressive tax is unfair.
    Appealing to the fleas to justify biting one dog is not intellectually honest.

    of course those who benefit from paying less than they should think its fair. that is why that disgusting scheme works.

  7. #507
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What you say is true. The massive FIT code is a huge "fund raiser" for members of congress, they get paid handsomely to tinker with it. We can't quite call it bribery but it is; if this change is made you will get $$$ from XXX given to your campaign fund, and if you get voted out of office next election YYY will give you ZZZ position at the XYZ lobbying foundation for $$$ per year, for life.

    A simple fix, to keep the rate flat, but to make it politically possible to pass, is a large 'standard deduction' of say $20,000/year.
    also unworkable but another way to castrate congress and render to it the proper level of power as intended would be to allow those who pay more taxes to have more votes-like stockholders. than the fleas could not constantly vote away the blood of the fewer dogs. the politicians would no longer cater to the many by promising them the wealth of the few

  8. #508
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    So for - what is it the fifth time - I have asked this guy to back up his claim with a link to unbiased, factual data.
    And yet again he refuses.
    I give up.
    Just let me know MS when you can answer the question...I have things i would rather do then this silly back-and-forth.
    Have a nice day.
    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    The government should have NOTHING to do with the economy at ALL.
    Why monopolies are bad:

    These will help you understand the basics ...
    The Basics - reference #1
    The Basics - reference #2


    Now, I know this is a big step from the last one but we'll try anyway ...
    Hydraulic empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Monopolies being bad and the need for a national currency are so obvious and basic that, honestly, if you need proof of those you should return to class, check out some books at the library, or do a lot more Internet reading at the very least. Providing links to basic, well-established theories and facts is something I will not waste time on. Regardless of how much free time I may have, that does not mean I am somehow required to waste it educating you.

    If you think the well-established theories are wrong then I invite you to do what every other fringe idealist of the past two centuries has been required to do - show proof that everyone else is wrong and you're right.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-09-12 at 02:30 AM.
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  9. #509
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Why monopolies are bad:

    These will help you understand the basics ...
    The Basics - reference #1
    The Basics - reference #2


    Now, I know this is a big step from the last one but we'll try anyway ...
    Hydraulic empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Monopolies being bad and the need for a national currency are so obvious and basic that, honestly, if you need proof of those you should return to class, check out some books at the library, or do a lot more Internet reading at the very least. Providing links to basic, well-established theories and facts is something I will not waste time on. Regardless of how much free time I may have, that does not mean I am somehow required to waste it educating you.

    If you think the well-established theories are wrong then I invite you to do what every other fringe idealist of the past two centuries has been required to do - show proof that everyone else is wrong and you're right.
    Ahhhhhh....yeaaaah.

    So this is your proof?

    Noted.


    And you asked me for mine.

    Here is a start to why I think government intervention in the economy is bad:

    "Why Was the Fed Created?" with George Selgin -- Ron Paul Fed Lecture Series, Pt 1/3 - YouTube


    Have a nice day.

  10. #510
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    If you think the well-established theories are wrong then I invite you to do what every other fringe idealist of the past two centuries has been required to do - show proof that everyone else is wrong and you're right.
    Btw - 'the well-established theories' are generally 'well-established' by Keynesian, macro-economic ignoramuses like Ben Bernanke, Paul Krugman and Timothy Geithner who don't understand free markets...all they understand is printing money.

    They are mostly arrogant, condescending, close-minded and out-of-touch with reality...much as you seem to be...especially the first three.

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