View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #441
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I have no problem with that - up to a point. The government must also provide an environment where jobs are available to be had. Whether these people get them and keep them is not the same topic/discussion. Blaming people (de-humanizing them) for being out of work when there are more people than jobs is idiotic to say the least. "Get a job!" has no meaning if there is no job to get.
    There ARE jobs to get. They just might not be in your "field of expertise" or in your town. Far too many will neither get nor take advantage of any real help, they want to stay in place make no effort to improve, they just want a check or a reward for failure. We have no programs that really work. Some only need very minor help to get "back on their feet", while others are true basket cases, addicted lowlife, morons that have no desire to do anything other than party and breed, currently these "lowlife" folks actually get MORE gov't help. Try to go to the state employment office and get them to give you a cheap car/truck to get to work in (and two months rent money), they laugh at you, saying we don't have that kind of program. You ask not even for two months? You can even offer to pay 10% of your earnings as payment for it, they may cancel and repo the ride if you don't, but they say sorry we don't do that. Ask what job training they have, and how you can survive until you get a job, they say we don't have that kind of program (unless you have a dependent child). But have a kid, even out-of-wedlock, and all of a sudden you get a house, food, clothing allowance, medical care and untold rewards with NO requirements that you do ANYTHING except "promise to try". That is insane!
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-07-12 at 11:19 AM.
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  2. #442
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    There ARE jobs to get. They just might not be in your "field of expertise" or in your town. Far too many will neither get nor take advantage of any real help, they want to stay in place make no effort to improve, they just want a check or a reward for failure. We have no programs that really work. Some only need very minor help to get "back on their feet", while others are true basket cases, addicted lowlife, morons that have no desire to do anything other than party and breed, currently these "lowlife" folks actually get MORE gov't help. Try to go to the state employment office and get them to give you a cheap car/truck to get to work in (and two months rent money), they laugh at you, saying we don't have that kind of program. You ask not even for two months? You can even offer to pay 10% of your earnings as payment for it, they may cancel and repo the ride if you don't, but they say sorry we don't do that. Ask what job training they have, and how you can survive until you get a job, they say we don't have that kind of program (unless you have a dependent child). But have a kid, even out-of-wedlock, and all of a sudden you get a house, food, clothing allowance, medical care and untold rewards with NO requirements that you do ANYTHING except "promise to try". That is insane!
    one of the big problems is that for many of the career welfare recipients, they get more $$$$ living off welfare than they could make working because they have no skills, education or training.
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  3. #443
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    one of the big problems is that for many of the career welfare recipients, they get more $$$$ living off welfare than they could make working because they have no skills, education or training.
    I agree. The "system" is set up to reward failure but makes, as a primary prerequisite, only those having a child be rewarded. That is insane, the last thing a destitute, uneducated moron needs is a child to raise, yet many programs make that insane move, step ONE. Even the NAME of the program AFDC (Aid for Families with Dependent Children) makes that crystal clear. We, the sheeple, fund and offer free K-12 public education yet make completing it an OPTION to get public assistance, yet seem to make having a child MANDATORY.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-07-12 at 11:31 AM.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #444
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I agree. The "system" is set up to reward failure, but has, as a primary prerequisite a child. That is insane, the last thing a destitute, uneducated moron needs is a child to raise, yet many programs make that insane move, step ONE. Even the NAME of the program AFDC (Aid for Families with Dependent Children) makes that crystal clear. We, the sheeple, fund and offer free K-12 public education yet make completing it an OPTION to get public assistance, yet seem to make having a child MANDATORY.

    when I was teaching public school, I ran across several 17-18 year old 9th graders who were only staying in school because as long as they were in school momma got a check for them until they turned 19
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  5. #445
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Where exactly did I type that I was 'blaming' them?
    The answer is 'no where'.
    I did not because I do not.
    I did not mean to imply that YOU specifically were "blaming them" for being jobless.
    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    The government's job (imo) is to enforce the law, protect the nation (military), look after those that cannot look after themselves (as I detailed above), provide health and safety guidelines and collect enough taxes to do that...and pretty much NOTHING else.

    Creating jobs is 100% up to the private sector...not the government.
    The private sector is called that for a reason...it's 'private'...NOTHING to do with government (so long as they stay within the law)...which is 'public'.
    To use your form of rebuttal:

    Where exactly did I type that I thought the government had to provide jobs?

    The answer is 'no where'.

    I did not because I do not.


    Now, back to my normal programming:
    All I said was that government needed to provide an environment where jobs are available. That is not the same as saying the government has to provide jobs. Providing financial assistance to the small business community is one way government creates a good environment for job creation. Dampening economic swings is another way to help provide a stable job market.


    And of course it has something to do with government since government regulates business.
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  6. #446
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The trashing of public housing is not done by 3 or 4 folks sneaking around in the dark, these perps are KNOWN but the attitude is "it not my place to mess wiff tyrone, he be one dangerous dude". What causes this "decay" is that NOBODY will stop it, because there is no way TO stop it. Say that you report the vandals to your local LEO, they actually make an arrest and it goes to court - what REALLY happens?

    First the vandals are released pending trial and will attempt to find out who "snitched", making that reporting of the crime a very bad move if you are discovered. Second, you MUST show-up at trial to be a state witness in order to get a conviction, so you know that you can not remain anonymous and the vandal and/or their "crew" will exact revenge. Third, even if convicted the vandal will get no more "punishment" than possibly being made to over paint their "gang signs" or do some meaningless "public service" work that requires massive overhead in paperwork and supervision costs far out-weighing any real benefit.

    Short of using the witness protection program, the "code of the hood" makes any attempt at controling these animals impossible. We just keep rebuilding and repairing the slums and letting them get torn up again, as it keeps the gov't liberals employed, the slum residents "in their place" and the "do gooders" convinced that they are "compassionate helpers of the poor" while wasting tax money but getting nowhere. So you may ask, what else can be done?

    I would say that we need the "poor house", a public "family" shelter run as a basic minimum security work release "prison", providing food, clothing and shelter, but with MANY strings. You get out only for work/job training, anything you earn is "taxed" by the poor house to help provide child care and other services, but many of these services can become JOBS (with decent pay) for the residents as well. Once the "family" is employed, has saved up some "new start money" and can reasonably be expected to "make it" they are 'released' to make a new start OUTSIDE of the slum, in a regular town, part of the city or country that has no need for knowledge of their past slum life. They are simply the "new family" from "wherever" and may become part of general, productive society with dignity, self worth and pride that they "made it".
    That is a proposal I hope will never happen. Just a quick scan of it reveals a plan that can be abused and badly. I wouldnt want any part of it. This plan is a fast track for the return of indentured servitude, a nice term for slavery. Sorry but you might want to reconsider.
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  7. #447
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    That is a proposal I hope will never happen. Just a quick scan of it reveals a plan that can be abused and badly. I wouldnt want any part of it. This plan is a fast track for the return of indentured servitude, a nice term for slavery. Sorry but you might want to reconsider.
    but aren't they basically slaves of the govt now? if they don't do what uncle sam tells them to, he cuts off their check and foodstamps.
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  8. #448
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I did not mean to imply that YOU specifically were "blaming them" for being jobless.
    To use your form of rebuttal:

    Where exactly did I type that I thought the government had to provide jobs?

    The answer is 'no where'.

    I did not because I do not.


    Now, back to my normal programming:
    All I said was that government needed to provide an environment where jobs are available. That is not the same as saying the government has to provide jobs. Providing financial assistance to the small business community is one way government creates a good environment for job creation. Dampening economic swings is another way to help provide a stable job market.


    And of course it has something to do with government since government regulates business.
    My mistake if I assumed wrong.


    The government should have NOTHING to do with the economy at ALL.

    You say they should 'dampen economic swings'.

    No, they should not - that is exactly why this recession keeps going and going.

    Recessions are good for the economy - they are critical to the free market process.

    They are painful but EXTREMELY necessary.

    Recessions happen (usually) when an economy overheats - when prices get to high (like in real estate in '08 and stocks in the dot.com crash).

    Recessions force those markets back to where they should be.

    Once that occurs - then the economy can start to grow again.


    Look at the housing market - it is still falling despite all the massive government attempts to stop it with trillions of stimuli and record low interest rates.

    But their attempts are EXACTLY why the market refuses to bottom out - the government won't let it.

    If the government/Fed had just left the housing market alone, housing prices would have (imo) bottomed out and started going back up again years ago.

    But because they have not - millions of families have to suffer far longer then they would have had the government just let market forces work as they should.

    This is basic, common sense in economics.


    This notion that Keynesians (not that I am saying you are one) have that economies can have all the gain of a boom with little of the pain of a recession through massive spending is silly, wrong and illogical AND has proven by history to be dead wrong (just look at the 1920/21 Depression and the Great Depression for proof).


    Also - governments should NEVER provide economic assistance to ANY companies.

    If the company is properly run and has a product and/or service that is needed - it WILL almost certainly succeed without ANY government help.

    If it is not - it SHOULD fail.


    And to help one company at the expense of another is wrong.

    Either you give the same amount of money to all businesses (on a per capita basis) - which I TOTALLY disagree with, but at least it is fair.

    Or you give zero money to all businesses and let the market decide who survives and who dies (business-wise).
    Last edited by DA60; 06-07-12 at 02:00 PM.

  9. #449
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your idiotic rant has no merit
    I'm not the one ranting here TD.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    because I pay far more than my share and I am merely demanding that those who do not pay their share do so.
    You are demanding others pay more taxes so that you can pay less. Justify it however you like.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    That you are ignorant of the fact that the top one percent make 22% of the icome but pay over 40% of the income and estate taxes (39.5% of the FIT and almost ALL the death tax) is not my fault. That has been posted hundreds of times on this board.
    I'm not ignorant of the fact. I read your posts. I question the data because I've never seen a source for it. The fact that you repeatedly post it means nothing in terms of the its accuracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am not calling you an idiot-merely noted you have uttered idiotic claims
    You're splitting hairs here.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and its not hypocrisy for someone who pays too much based on objective factors to demand others pay more.
    When you frequently rage at people and go into rant mode at a moment's notice because they want you to pay more taxes so that they can pay less, you are absolutely a hypocrite for asking the exact same thing of them. It's not the wanting them to pay more so you can pay less that makes you a hypocrite, it's the way you react to them wanting the exact same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    objective factors.

    1) divide the government spending by each citizen-that is the individual share of the government spending. I pay far more than that number which I have seen listed as around 15,000 a year

    2) the cohort I am in-the top one percent, pays almost 40% of the income tax. it makes 22% of the income. NO OTHER PERCENTILE pays more of the income tax burden than its share of the income. Objectively, "fair" would be the people who make 22% of the income pay 22% of the income tax. My group pays almost the entire death/estate tax. We aren't the only group that bequeaths wealth
    Utterly meaningless until you post a source for the data.
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  10. #450
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I'm not the one ranting here TD.



    You are demanding others pay more taxes so that you can pay less. Justify it however you like.



    I'm not ignorant of the fact. I read your posts. I question the data because I've never seen a source for it. The fact that you repeatedly post it means nothing in terms of the its accuracy.



    You're splitting hairs here.



    When you frequently rage at people and go into rant mode at a moment's notice because they want you to pay more taxes so that they can pay less, you are absolutely a hypocrite for asking the exact same thing of them. It's not the wanting them to pay more so you can pay less that makes you a hypocrite, it's the way you react to them wanting the exact same thing.



    Utterly meaningless until you post a source for the data.

    you continue to persist in the stubborn assumption that what the rich pay now is fair and any attempt by the rich to actually pay what is truly fair is wrong

    I want the government to massively cut spending so all taxes go down but if people like you continue to demand mucho government, then people like me shouldn't pay more

    I find it idiotic that you think those who are overtaxed demanding others at least pay more for what they use is no different than those who don't pay their share demanding others pay even more

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