View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #431
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    I think the rich pay enough, it is the poor who should pay some.
    People need to have some skin in the game.
    People just don't value anything they don't pay for.

  2. #432
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Where did I say that? I think most of the current tax code is unfair, to a lot of different people, and for a lot of different reasons.



    You are absolutely a hypocrite. And it has nothing to do with being willing or unwilling to pay your share of the taxes. It has everything to do with the way you treat people who pay less taxes than you, when you essentially want the exact same thing they want.



    You keep saying this, and I'm still not seeing any hard data to back it up.



    You can continue justifying your behavior and lashing out by calling me an idiot as much as you want, but all that tells me is that I've hit close to home. You know you're a hypocrite or you wouldn't be so pissed about me calling you one. And I'll stop when you stop the hypocrisy.
    your idiotic rant has no merit because I pay far more than my share and I am merely demanding that those who do not pay their share do so.

    That you are ignorant of the fact that the top one percent make 22% of the icome but pay over 40% of the income and estate taxes (39.5% of the FIT and almost ALL the death tax) is not my fault. That has been posted hundreds of times on this board.

    I am not calling you an idiot-merely noted you have uttered idiotic claims and its not hypocrisy for someone who pays too much based on objective factors to demand others pay more.

    objective factors.

    1) divide the government spending by each citizen-that is the individual share of the government spending. I pay far more than that number which I have seen listed as around 15,000 a year

    2) the cohort I am in-the top one percent, pays almost 40% of the income tax. it makes 22% of the income. NO OTHER PERCENTILE pays more of the income tax burden than its share of the income. Objectively, "fair" would be the people who make 22% of the income pay 22% of the income tax. My group pays almost the entire death/estate tax. We aren't the only group that bequeaths wealth

  3. #433
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Sometimes it helps to use the absurd as a paintbrush to create an image.
    Universities use something called (Full Time Equivalent) FTE to calculate how many classes
    need instructors. I think we stated above that the Average cost of government is $12k.
    So $12 K in taxes are one FTE taxpayer, each FTE taxpayer get one vote.
    If you don't pay $12K in taxes, you have to team up with several folks who agree with you
    until the group gets above one FTE, then the group gets one vote.
    The FTE is derived by the cost of government divided by the population.
    ( before all of the flames, this is sort of how we elect our Representatives.)

  4. #434
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    People just don't value anything they don't pay for.
    just take a drive through any govt housing project. graffiti and trash everywhere, doors hang off hinges, screens torn or missing, holes in the walls, etc. The residents don't take care of the place because they have no investment in it.

    when you don't have to actually work to pay for things, you tend to take them for granted
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  5. #435
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    just take a drive through any govt housing project. graffiti and trash everywhere, doors hang off hinges, screens torn or missing, holes in the walls, etc. The residents don't take care of the place because they have no investment in it.
    Because, of course, these sub-humans WANT to live in a place with holes in the walls and doors off hinges. It has nothing to do with gangs and street violence. It has nothing to do with the few people in these complexes that really don't care because they're addicted to some substance. No, ALL of them are sub-humans who want nothing better in their lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    when you don't have to actually work to pay for things, you tend to take them for granted
    Does this mean you're offering all of them a job so they can pay to live in a dump that the landlord won't repair?

    And where, exactly, will these jobs come from when there aren't even enough jobs for "normal" humans?
    Or did another 4% of the population just over-night become sub-human because of economic disaster?
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    mindless hyperbole duely noted

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post

    Does this mean you're offering all of them a job so they can pay to live in a dump that the landlord won't repair?
    that's the point you are missing. the landlord (aka uncle sam) does repair it....they just trash it again
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  7. #437
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Because, of course, these sub-humans WANT to live in a place with holes in the walls and doors off hinges. It has nothing to do with gangs and street violence. It has nothing to do with the few people in these complexes that really don't care because they're addicted to some substance. No, ALL of them are sub-humans who want nothing better in their lives.

    Does this mean you're offering all of them a job so they can pay to live in a dump that the landlord won't repair?

    And where, exactly, will these jobs come from when there aren't even enough jobs for "normal" humans?
    Or did another 4% of the population just over-night become sub-human because of economic disaster?
    The government, imo, owes them basic shelter, food, clothing, basic medical/dental care (extensive medical/dental care if they are under 18) and nothing else.

    If they cannot find a job - tough.

  8. #438
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Because, of course, these sub-humans WANT to live in a place with holes in the walls and doors off hinges. It has nothing to do with gangs and street violence. It has nothing to do with the few people in these complexes that really don't care because they're addicted to some substance. No, ALL of them are sub-humans who want nothing better in their lives.

    Does this mean you're offering all of them a job so they can pay to live in a dump that the landlord won't repair?

    And where, exactly, will these jobs come from when there aren't even enough jobs for "normal" humans?
    Or did another 4% of the population just over-night become sub-human because of economic disaster?
    The trashing of public housing is not done by 3 or 4 folks sneaking around in the dark, these perps are KNOWN but the attitude is "it not my place to mess wiff tyrone, he be one dangerous dude". What causes this "decay" is that NOBODY will stop it, because there is no way TO stop it. Say that you report the vandals to your local LEO, they actually make an arrest and it goes to court - what REALLY happens?

    First the vandals are released pending trial and will attempt to find out who "snitched", making that reporting of the crime a very bad move if you are discovered. Second, you MUST show-up at trial to be a state witness in order to get a conviction, so you know that you can not remain anonymous and the vandal and/or their "crew" will exact revenge. Third, even if convicted the vandal will get no more "punishment" than possibly being made to over paint their "gang signs" or do some meaningless "public service" work that requires massive overhead in paperwork and supervision costs far out-weighing any real benefit.

    Short of using the witness protection program, the "code of the hood" makes any attempt at controling these animals impossible. We just keep rebuilding and repairing the slums and letting them get torn up again, as it keeps the gov't liberals employed, the slum residents "in their place" and the "do gooders" convinced that they are "compassionate helpers of the poor" while wasting tax money but getting nowhere. So you may ask, what else can be done?

    I would say that we need the "poor house", a public "family" shelter run as a basic minimum security work release "prison", providing food, clothing and shelter, but with MANY strings. You get out only for work/job training, anything you earn is "taxed" by the poor house to help provide child care and other services, but many of these services can become JOBS (with decent pay) for the residents as well. Once the "family" is employed, has saved up some "new start money" and can reasonably be expected to "make it" they are 'released' to make a new start OUTSIDE of the slum, in a regular town, part of the city or country that has no need for knowledge of their past slum life. They are simply the "new family" from "wherever" and may become part of general, productive society with dignity, self worth and pride that they "made it".
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-07-12 at 10:53 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #439
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    The government, imo, owes them basic shelter, food, clothing, basic medical/dental care (extensive medical/dental care if they are under 18) and nothing else.

    If they cannot find a job - tough.
    I have no problem with that - up to a point. The government must also provide an environment where jobs are available to be had. Whether these people get them and keep them is not the same topic/discussion. Blaming people (de-humanizing them) for being out of work when there are more people than jobs is idiotic to say the least. "Get a job!" has no meaning if there is no job to get.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-07-12 at 10:52 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #440
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I have no problem with that - up to a point. The government must also provide an environment where jobs are available to be had. Whether these people get them and keep them is not the same topic/discussion. Blaming people (de-humanizing them) for being out of work when there are more people than jobs is idiotic to say the least. "Get a job!" has no meaning if there is no job to get.
    Where exactly did I type that I was 'blaming' them?

    The answer is 'no where'.

    I did not because I do not.


    The government's job (imo) is to enforce the law, protect the nation (military), look after those that cannot look after themselves (as I detailed above), provide health and safety guidelines and collect enough taxes to do that...and pretty much NOTHING else.

    Creating jobs is 100% up to the private sector...not the government.

    The private sector is called that for a reason...it's 'private'...NOTHING to do with government (so long as they stay within the law)...which is 'public'.

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