View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #421
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Try to focus Turtle. Who has proposed a 40% capital gains tax rate? Link please.
    You forgot about the Buffett Rule-an EFFECTIVE tax rate of 30%--WTF do you think that means

  2. #422
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you deny that some people want capital gains and dividend income to be taxed the same for the rich as earned income?

    WTF do you think the BUFFETT RULE is designed to do?


    Geeez
    If you double (or more) the capital gains FIT rate then you effectively cut the investment yield of stocks to less than that of many tax free bond investments, which will likely have two, very bad, "unintended" consequences: 1) less activity (and value) for these more price static and higher yield stocks and 2) less overall tax revenue as money leaves the much of the stock market and switches to bonds (tax free interest yield), precious metals and "growth stocks", that can be held (tax free) until the capital gains rate gets changed back to basically what it is now.
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  3. #423
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If you double (or more) the capital gains FIT rate then you effectively cut the investment yield of stocks to less than that of many tax free bond investments, which will likely have two, very bad, "unintended" consequences: 1) less activity (and value) for these more price static and higher yield stocks and 2) less overall tax revenue as money leaves the much of the stock market and switches to bonds (tax free interest yield), precious metals and "growth stocks", that can be held (tax free) until the capital gains rate gets changed back to basically what it is now.
    if you read the babble posted by those who constantly whine that its "unfair" to tax the investment income of the wealthy less than that of their earned income you will quickly find that economic rationality or an understanding of investment is foreign to these people. rather they are oozing envy that others have the means to invest and they want the government to take more money from those more industrious than they are

    their leader set the stage when he admitted he would still want to jack up investment tax rates even if it resulted in less tax revenue because it would be "FAIR"

    fair would be all the parasites paying the same rates as the rich do

  4. #424
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    fair would be all the parasites paying the same rates as the rich do
    "The parasites"...disgusting you would call fellow man parasites.
    It seems you have some disconnect to the world-one that severely limits your scope and thinking..and leads you to this hyper partisanship

  5. #425
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fruityfact View Post
    "The parasites"...disgusting you would call fellow man parasites.
    It seems you have some disconnect to the world-one that severely limits your scope and thinking..and leads you to this hyper partisanship
    an auspicious post for a newbie-so much fail in so few words. parasites are those who demand others support them. and parasites can be rich elitists like John Edwards, indolent middle class people who demand all their subsidies or the poor.

    and yes there are plenty of "fellow men" that I have no use for. They deliberately impose costs on the rest of us. They are parasites.

  6. #426
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    if you read the babble posted by those who constantly whine that its "unfair" to tax the investment income of the wealthy less than that of their earned income you will quickly find that economic rationality or an understanding of investment is foreign to these people. rather they are oozing envy that others have the means to invest and they want the government to take more money from those more industrious than they are

    their leader set the stage when he admitted he would still want to jack up investment tax rates even if it resulted in less tax revenue because it would be "FAIR"

    fair would be all the parasites paying the same rates as the rich do
    The first rule for a successful parasite is do not kill or debilitate the host; taking a little bit over the long haul works better than tyring to take a lot in a hurry. The rich did not get to be rich because they were stupid. They will simply shift investments to avoid the heavier taxation. Many times in the past we had super high marginal tax rates on the rich, but found that 80% of little or nothing is not as nearly as good as 35% of something fairly big and steadily growing. The rich have no great need to increase their wealth, in the short run, simply to maintain it. This is why all of the wise economists caution against raising taxes in tough economic times, as it tends to make them even tougher.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  7. #427
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You forgot about the Buffett Rule-an EFFECTIVE tax rate of 30%--WTF do you think that means
    Where is the link for the 40% tax rate on capital gains that you claimed?
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your point fails because you think that the tax code is fair now where the rich pay more than 40% of the income and estate taxes.
    Where did I say that? I think most of the current tax code is unfair, to a lot of different people, and for a lot of different reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I have no hypocrisy I have never been against paying my share of the taxes.
    You are absolutely a hypocrite. And it has nothing to do with being willing or unwilling to pay your share of the taxes. It has everything to do with the way you treat people who pay less taxes than you, when you essentially want the exact same thing they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    which ranges for my group somewhere between 1% (based on population) or 22% of the federal income tax burden (based on share of the income.
    You keep saying this, and I'm still not seeing any hard data to back it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Your idiotic claim that I vilify people completely ignores the current situation.
    You can continue justifying your behavior and lashing out by calling me an idiot as much as you want, but all that tells me is that I've hit close to home. You know you're a hypocrite or you wouldn't be so pissed about me calling you one. And I'll stop when you stop the hypocrisy.
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  9. #429
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    I think the rich pay too much income tax and not enough capital gains tax.

    No one should be punished for being successful.


    I believe there should be one tax rate for everything (capital gains and income) and all amounts; outside of maybe no taxation for those under a certain amount.
    I also think there should be no deductions except for charitable contributions.
    Last edited by DA60; 06-07-12 at 07:40 AM.

  10. #430
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    And those changes, while unpredictable are still different than gambling.
    "Investing" in a number, horse, dog, lottery ticket, is different from investing in an ownership interest in a business.
    You keep saying that without showing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Your "investments" in those gambling activities, do not produce value added, products or services.
    Tell that to the casinos in Las Vegas.

    To both quotes:
    Sorry, when Steve sells 2000 shares of IBM stock to Bill the only one getting money from the deal is the stock broker and maybe Steve. IBM doesn't make a dime. There is no 'value added' anything, at least not anymore than there is from any other form of gambling activity.

    I will give you that IBM stock will yield dividends but that's not really any different than putting money in a savings account or credit union, is it? Credit union deposits actually buy 'shares' in the credit union - but there are no tax breaks there. Why is that?


    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    What does the horse produce?
    Natural gas - which is still more than that IBM stock deal produced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    There aren't, but that's likely because the number of uninsured banks is hardly present.

    I'm sure it's based on the idea that the government doesn't want uninsured banks and thus, they do not encourage this economic activity.
    OK, so you're saying we give up tax revenue to encourage investment in certain areas? But most of the tax revenue we lose doesn't even go into the 'real' investments that go to businesses for expansion. They go into letting Steve and Bill keep more interest from their savings accounts - er, "dividends from stocks". For the betting side of Wall St, which is to say stocks that increase in value instead of paying dividends, the tax breaks only fuel exchanges of these stocks because nothing gets sold unless someone else is buying. There's still nothing added here and the only ones making money are the casino's - er, "brokerage houses and stock brokers".

    If you would like to show some way to separate income from the savings accounts (dividend stocks) and lottery tickets (growth stocks) from the real investment stocks - newly released issuance's for expansion - then we might have something to talk about. Frankly, I thought most of that was accomplished through bonds but I could be wrong. It's been awhile since I really followed the market closely.
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