View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

Voters
181. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
Page 41 of 126 FirstFirst ... 3139404142435191 ... LastLast
Results 401 to 410 of 1260

Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #401
    Anti-Hypocrite
    molten_dragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Southeast Michigan
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    9,351

    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the difference is we can prove that the rich

    1) pay far more of the national tax burden than their share of the income. every group other than the top one or two percent pays less. So while "fair share" is a amorphous concept, we do know that the rich pay more than their share of the income-everyone else pays less.

    2) we also know that the top one percent-when calculating the two progressive federal taxes-income and estate-pay more than 40% of the tax bill. the top 5% pay more than the rest of the country combined. The rich objectivly pay for services that benefit eeryone else. Everyone else is subsidized by the rich
    Where are you getting this information? I'm curious how it's being calculated. For example, when they're counting income, is it only the tax definition of income? Or are they also counting income from investments which are taxed at a lower rate. And I'd also like to figure out what percentage of discretionary income the wealthy make compared to what percentage of taxes they pay.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    So I am merely advocating people pay their share of what they use or what they want.
    Which is still asking others to pay more taxes than they currently do so that you can pay less, something you vilify others for.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    That is a huge difference from what you want-you want the rich to continue to subsidize your artificially low taxes so you can get stuff you don't pay for
    Do you actually read the stuff I post? Because if you did, you'd know that I don't want to continue anything about the current tax system. On the contrary I want to make massive changes to nearly every part of the US tax code.

    The only reason I keep harping on this particular point is because hypocrisy bugs the crap out of me and I rarely let it go without pointing it out.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  2. #402
    Anti-Hypocrite
    molten_dragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Southeast Michigan
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    9,351

    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That capital gains, especially on the sale of your home, are not real income at all, and should not be taxed as such.
    I do agree that you shouldn't be taxed on any proceeds made from the sale of your primary residence. Saying that all capital gains aren't income at all is silly though. In many cases, people make far more on their investments than the rate of inflation. I'd be okay with reducing the capital gains income by the rate of inflation, but why shouldn't anything in excess of inflation be taxed as income?
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  3. #403
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,582

    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    There is no evidence that our higher capital gains tax rates under Reagan and Clinton hurt our economy. And there is no evidence that the lowered capital gains tax rates have created more jobs in the US.
    I never said that they did. All I am saying is that when gov't messes with things other things are bound to happen. As those in 1982 changing many laws concerning mortages and mortgage insurance likely never anticipated that 20 years later it would all fall apart. I am saying, without a doubt that changing the taxation laws concerning investment income WILL have economic consequences, more jobs, same jobs or less jobs will result, can you guess which? By saying that prior investment tax law changes have NOT created jobs does that mean reverting back to old (or inventing new) investment rates will create jobs? Perhaps, as I think, it is the very fast growing national debt, making HUGE future tax increases likely, that has stalled the economy. Money lent to the gov't is NOT available to be invested in private business, that is the most likely shift I can see the rich investors making if the (after tax) yield is as good and the risks are smaller. We will see.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #404
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I never said that they did.

    Well, what is the incentive for the working class to continue to vote for the tax cuts for the wealthy then?


    All I am saying is that when gov't messes with things other things are bound to happen. As those in 1982 changing many laws concerning mortages and mortgage insurance likely never anticipated that 20 years later it would all fall apart.
    We have experience in this case that shows that eliminating the capital gains tax cuts do not hurt our economy, or affect job creation.



    I am saying, without a doubt that changing the taxation laws concerning investment income WILL have economic consequences, more jobs, same jobs or less jobs will result, can you guess which?
    Well we had higher job creation when the capital gains rate was higher under Reagan and Clinton.


    By saying that prior investment tax law changes have NOT created jobs does that mean reverting back to old (or inventing new) investment rates will create jobs?
    It did not hurt job growth when it was used in the past. Since it is not creating jobs in the the US, why continue reduced revenue that just increases the deficit?

    Perhaps, as I think, it is the very fast growing national debt, making HUGE future tax increases likely, that has stalled the economy. Money lent to the gov't is NOT available to be invested in private business, that is the most likely shift I can see the rich investors making if the (after tax) yield is as good and the risks are smaller. We will see.
    It was the Bush recession that stalled the economy. If you want to stimulate the economy we need to reverse the income inequality that most of the wealth concentrated at the top out of reach of consumers who drive production.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #405
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,658

    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Where are you getting this information? I'm curious how it's being calculated. For example, when they're counting income, is it only the tax definition of income? Or are they also counting income from investments which are taxed at a lower rate. And I'd also like to figure out what percentage of discretionary income the wealthy make compared to what percentage of taxes they pay.



    Which is still asking others to pay more taxes than they currently do so that you can pay less, something you vilify others for.



    Do you actually read the stuff I post? Because if you did, you'd know that I don't want to continue anything about the current tax system. On the contrary I want to make massive changes to nearly every part of the US tax code.

    The only reason I keep harping on this particular point is because hypocrisy bugs the crap out of me and I rarely let it go without pointing it out.
    your point fails because you think that the tax code is fair now where the rich pay more than 40% of the income and estate taxes. I have no hypocrisy I have never been against paying my share of the taxes. which ranges for my group somewhere between 1% (based on population) or 22% of the federal income tax burden (based on share of the income.


    Your idiotic claim that I vilify people completely ignores the current situation.

  6. #406
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,658

    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Well, what is the incentive for the working class to continue to vote for the tax cuts for the wealthy then?




    We have experience in this case that shows that eliminating the capital gains tax cuts do not hurt our economy, or affect job creation.





    Well we had higher job creation when the capital gains rate was higher under Reagan and Clinton.




    It did not hurt job growth when it was used in the past. Since it is not creating jobs in the the US, why continue reduced revenue that just increases the deficit?



    It was the Bush recession that stalled the economy. If you want to stimulate the economy we need to reverse the income inequality that most of the wealth concentrated at the top out of reach of consumers who drive production.
    I love how you casually cast aside the property rights and freedom of the rich on the grounds that taxing them at confiscatory rates won't (in your mind LOL) hurt the economy

    guess what-ending most welfare programs, or sterilizing the poor wouldn't hurt the economy and might well help it. If personal rights mean nothing than lets at least do something that we know will help the economy

  7. #407
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I love how you casually cast aside the property rights and freedom of the rich on the grounds that taxing them at confiscatory rates won't (in your mind LOL) hurt the economy
    No one has proposed confiscatory rates. The only rate increases proposed are lower that historic rates when our economy was prospering.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #408
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,658

    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No one has proposed confiscatory rates. The only rates increases proposed are lower that historic rates when our economy was prospering.
    having the rates on investment income go from 15% to 40% is confiscatory

    and if you aren't paying 40C on the next dollar you own your claim has absolutely no relevance.

    and you have never come close to proving that the economy was better because of those rates

    you cannot replicate the dot com bubble so your speculation is garbage

  9. #409
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    having the rates on investment income go from 15% to 40% is confiscatory

    and if you aren't paying 40C on the next dollar you own your claim has absolutely no relevance.

    and you have never come close to proving that the economy was better because of those rates

    you cannot replicate the dot com bubble so your speculation is garbage

    Who has proposed increasing capital gain rates to 40%?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #410
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,658

    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Who has proposed increasing capital gain rates to 40%?
    you don't pay much attention to current events do you?

    and investment income is not limited to long term capital gains

Page 41 of 126 FirstFirst ... 3139404142435191 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •