View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
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    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #371
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Of course it's relevant since we're talking about money. Bring a wrongful death suit about a dead millionaire compared to a dead janitor and see what the courts say about what a human life is worth.
    it is not relevant at all because, after the fact, you both would have NOTHING. preventing that end state is what defense spending is about.
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  2. #372
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    So, just to be clear, if you have capital gains of $2M but loose $1M you have to pay taxes on $1.997M? Or do you owe taxes on $1M?
    If you buy an asset (say a house), at fair market value, and later sell that assest, at fair market value, did you really make any gain (or loss)? While that asset may have gone up (or down) in dollar value you still have exactly enough pre-tax dollars left to buy only that same asset. Capital gains, if not adjusted for inflation, are basically meaningless "paper" profits/losses.
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  3. #373
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Let's use a simple burglery as an example. Who would lose more, a poor uninsured household or a rich insured household? Even discounting the insurance factor, the rich can easily replace the lost property with little or no effect on their ability to feed and clothe their family or pay their mortgage/rent. ;-)
    Insurance seldom covers everything, though the Cadillac policies and people mis-representing values might make the difference. In any event, I have insurance and I still don't have that much to loose compared to Daddy Warbucks.

    The poor have almost nothing to loose. They have a $100 wardrobe, a $20 stereo, and if there are holes left in the wall or the door's bashed in, well, it's not their walls or door - it's the landlord's door and wall.
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  4. #374
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    it is not relevant at all because, after the fact, you both would have NOTHING. preventing that end state is what defense spending is about.
    If we get invaded, win or loose, I most likely won't survive anyway. I'd rather die defending my home than give it up. I'm not sure the rich would be as willing.

    Besides, what we're really talking about here isn't full-scale invasion. You want me to pay 2/350,000,000th of the cost to maintain the nuclear arsenal??? I'll do that. If someone invades, nuke the bastards!!

    Everything else is an overseas protection racket that I'm not willing to pay for beyond what my life and property are worth, which is as I discussed above.



    PS
    But keep in mind - this is TDs idea of "taxation" - pay only for what you use. That's NOT my idea.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-06-12 at 10:05 AM.
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  5. #375
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If you buy an asset (say a house), at fair market value, and later sell that assest, at fair market value, did you really make any gain (or loss)? While that asset may have gone up (or down) in dollar value you still have exactly enough pre-tax dollars left to buy only that same asset. Capital gains, if not adjusted for inflation, are basically meaningless "paper" profits/losses.
    "Fair market value"? You're kidding, right? Even with cars and real estate it's an illusion - didn't the housing bubble just prove that?



    If they're meaningless then why bother with them at all?
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    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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  6. #376
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    "Fair market value"? You're kidding, right? Even with cars and real estate it's an illusion - didn't the housing bubble just prove that?



    If they're meaningless then why bother with them at all?
    My point, exactly. If you bought your home in 1980 for $120K and sold it in 2000 for $200K, then you made no "gain" since you can still only afford to buy back that exact same home, not an $80K "better" one.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  7. #377
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    "Fair market value"? You're kidding, right? Even with cars and real estate it's an illusion - didn't the housing bubble just prove that?



    If they're meaningless then why bother with them at all?
    No. The housing bubble did not prove that value is an illusion. It proved value is only momentary. Just like stock, beenie babies and real estate, every fair market value is in flux...it is constantly changing.
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  8. #378
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    My point, exactly. If you bought your home in 1980 for $120K and sold it in 2000 for $200K, then you made no "gain" since you can still only afford to buy back that exact same home, not an $80K "better" one.
    I'm still not able to connect all the dots here. Either you left one out or I missed it. What's your overall point, again?
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #379
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I'm still not able to connect all the dots here. Either you left one out or I missed it. What's your overall point, again?
    That capital gains, especially on the sale of your home, are not real income at all, and should not be taxed as such.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #380
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That capital gains, especially on the sale of your home, are not real income at all, and should not be taxed as such.
    I believe there are specific tax laws about the sale of your primary residence - at least there used to be.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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