View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #351
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I certainly don't demand that you pay for what I use.
    Bull. You want the rich to pay less taxes, which, assuming the change would be revenue neutral, would mean that the poor and middle class would have to pick up the slack. So you do want others to pay more for what you use, and yourself to pay less. Honestly, that's pretty much what everyone wants.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  2. #352
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Many see investment as an evil activity of the rich, not as necessary for economic growth.
    I don't see it as evil. I just don't see it as more beneficial than actually doing work in the companies that the rich invest in, which is essentially what we're saying by taxing it at a lower rate.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  3. #353
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    Let's see how your bio stacks up against Bruce Bartlett. Here is his bio:

    Bruce Bartlett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Your turn now! Let's see your bio.
    Yeah, hard to believe that a man twice my age would have a more distinguished working history.

    He went to Rutgers and Georgetown. I went to Michigan. If you want to compare academic legitimacy, I defy you to find one credible list of business schools that ranks the Ross School of Business below anything either Rutgers or Georgetown puts out there.

    He even grew up in Ann Arbor. He had the chance to get the quality of education I have, and didn't. Instead he settled for lackluster schools.

    Am I supposed to be impressed? Sorry, not happenin'.

  4. #354
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Yeah, hard to believe that a man twice my age would have a more distinguished working history.

    He went to Rutgers and Georgetown. I went to Michigan. If you want to compare academic legitimacy, I defy you to find one credible list of business schools that ranks the Ross School of Business below anything either Rutgers or Georgetown puts out there.

    He even grew up in Ann Arbor. He had the chance to get the quality of education I have, and didn't. Instead he settled for lackluster schools.

    Am I supposed to be impressed? Sorry, not happenin'.

    Oh, were you a domestic policy adviser to a President, a Treasury official, and a Congressional Economist?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #355
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    He went to Rutgers and Georgetown. I went to Michigan. If you want to compare academic legitimacy, I defy you to find one credible list of business schools that ranks the Ross School of Business below anything either Rutgers or Georgetown puts out there.

    He even grew up in Ann Arbor. He had the chance to get the quality of education I have, and didn't. Instead he settled for lackluster schools.
    Michigan is a great school to be sure, but Georgetown is too. For undergrad, Georgetown is 22nd and Michigan is 28th. For graduate programs Michigan probably pulls ahead in general. There are some areas where Georgetown blows Michigan out of the water and some areas where Michigan destroys Georgetown, but overall they're in the same tier. Michigan is about three times as big as Georgetown, so it certainly has a broader focus. The School of Foreign Service is probably Georgetown's crown jewel. If you rank it separately from the rest of the university for undergrad it would come in 3rd or 4th most years.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  6. #356
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Bull. You want the rich to pay less taxes, which, assuming the change would be revenue neutral, would mean that the poor and middle class would have to pick up the slack. So you do want others to pay more for what you use, and yourself to pay less. Honestly, that's pretty much what everyone wants.

    the rich pay far more than their share. If the middle class and the poor continue to want massive government spending its only fair that they shoulder more of the bill.

    Its like saying ten people go to a dinner and everyone had a 15 dollar meal and one guy pays 130 dollars and the other 9 pay 20 and the guy paying the most says he wants to only pay 70 dollars. well yes if the rest want 16 dollar meals they are going to have to come up with the 80 bucks.


    You labor under the delusion that the current system is fair-where one percent that makes 22% of the income and certainly does not use anywhere NEAR 22% of the government services funded by the income tax, yet pays 40% of the income tax (and then add the estate-death tax surcharge).

  7. #357
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Yeah, hard to believe that a man twice my age would have a more distinguished working history.

    He went to Rutgers and Georgetown. I went to Michigan. If you want to compare academic legitimacy, I defy you to find one credible list of business schools that ranks the Ross School of Business below anything either Rutgers or Georgetown puts out there.

    He even grew up in Ann Arbor. He had the chance to get the quality of education I have, and didn't. Instead he settled for lackluster schools.

    Am I supposed to be impressed? Sorry, not happenin'.
    Georgetown is a not a lackluster school under any evaluation. Now Michigan Law School is a better law school but the average student at G'Town is probably stronger since Michigan has far easier standards for in state students. The students I know who went to Michigan who had no ties to the state were often those who were competitive at places like Columbia, Harvard, Cornell, Duke and NYU. Many of in state acceptances-not quite, The average G-Town student might not get into Harvard or Yale or Stanford but they were close

  8. #358
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the rich pay far more than their share.
    By your definition of fair. Clearly not everyone agrees with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If the middle class and the poor continue to want massive government spending its only fair that they shoulder more of the bill. Its like saying ten people go to a dinner and everyone had a 15 dollar meal and one guy pays 130 dollars and the other 9 pay 20 and the guy paying the most says he wants to only pay 70 dollars. well yes if the rest want 16 dollar meals they are going to have to come up with the 80 bucks.
    You can justify it however you want, but the fact of the matter is, you want to do the exact same thing that the poor people you villify so much want to do. You want to shift the tax burden off your shoulders and onto the shoulders of someone else. That's just human nature though, I can hardly blame you for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You labor under the delusion that the current system is fair-where one percent that makes 22% of the income and certainly does not use anywhere NEAR 22% of the government services funded by the income tax, yet pays 40% of the income tax (and then add the estate-death tax surcharge).
    I don't labor under any delusions. The current system sucks, and is unfair in a lot of ways, that's why I want to change it. And I do care about whether the tax system is fair (though that's not my primary concern). I'm simply not willing to let you get away with the hypocrisy of slamming the poor and middle class for wanting to shift their tax burden onto the shoulders of the wealthy when you come in here and want to do the exact same damn thing in reverse.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  9. #359
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I did use RED as an example earlier but I could just as easily have used "Lucky Lady in the 5th" for betting on a horse and it wouldn't be much different than what you described - past history of both the horse and jockey.
    Sorry but that still not comparable.
    Companies make money, from productive activity, while horse betters make money from the randomness of one horse winning.
    Someone else loses in every case of gambling, while with investing, most people can "win."

    Sorry, your gambling comparisons fall flat on their ass.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I will give you the last bit, though, your winnings are deferred when you gamble on stocks. If you want a fast return you might consider a savings account. CD's also pay with deferred savings but it's still taxed as regular income. Why is that???
    Investing isn't gambling.
    You should stop repeating this nonsense, it makes your arguments look silly.

    CD's are insured by the government, your principle is guaranteed, if the bank goes under.
    Your only losses being interest and time preference.


    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I'm not sure we should necessarily give people tax breaks for "investing in the economy" when that economy could just as easily be in China or India. Why should we care if money builds a plant in China to make widgets for Germans or other Chinese?

    If you would like a break for American investment then I might see it as reasonable. Otherwise it's just an excuse for some to pay less than others.
    We live in a global economy, giving tax breaks for Americans only, is just the same old lame protectionism.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 06-06-12 at 08:19 AM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #360
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Are you trying to say you can't deduct losses from gains? Or can't defer losses?
    Up to $3000, which you can carry the extra over to the next year.
    That's so great, when you may lose several thousand, to million dollars.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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