View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #341
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    MoSurveyor's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I wasn't talking about me-I was talking about those who think others ought to pay for what you want. I certainly don't demand that you pay for what I use. I don't impose costs on you so why do you feel that you are entitled to make others pay to fund your existence?
    Of course you're talking about you. Who do you think you're fooling by claiming otherwise? Do you honestly think no one will make the connection that these "others" to whom you refer don't include YOU?!?

    Who says you don't impose costs on me? In my view I pay for more than I use and since I don't invest in things that are halfway around the world, and since my wealth is infinitesimal compared to many in this country, I'm pretty sure of exactly what it is I do use. Rich people on the other hand probably do not include how much of MY tax money is being used to protect THEIR investments and THEIR wealth. They shouldn't be so sure of their position. In some people's eyes the rich are as much of a drain on society as any street bum - and in some cases they're more of a drain.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-05-12 at 06:34 PM.
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  2. #342
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I wasn't talking about me-I was talking about those who think others ought to pay for what you want. I certainly don't demand that you pay for what I use. I don't impose costs on you so why do you feel that you are entitled to make others pay to fund your existence?
    So says the self proclaimed "lawyer" who by default profits from tax payer dollars that support the legal/court system.

  3. #343
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Why should investment income be treated any differently than any other kind of income? If I bet on RED instead of IBM my winnings get taxed the same as any other kind of income. What makes betting on IBM so special?
    Investing isn't betting.
    Gambling is based on randomness and chance, while investing is based on past history and companies ability to earn income.
    There is some chance involved, but it's not pure chance, like gambling is.

    Investment income is different from wages, there is no guarantee.
    This type of income is typically deferred for long periods of time and it rewards greater investment in the economy.
    So that the economy can grow.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #344
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Investing isn't betting.
    Gambling is based on randomness and chance, while investing is based on past history and companies ability to earn income.
    There is some chance involved, but it's not pure chance, like gambling is.

    Investment income is different from wages, there is no guarantee.
    This type of income is typically deferred for long periods of time and it rewards greater investment in the economy.
    So that the economy can grow.
    Many see investment as an evil activity of the rich, not as necessary for economic growth. They like buying things made by, and working for corporations, they just want those evil rich folks to share the wealth with them, via gov't handouts, rather than create any more of it. Many go to Walmart and buy tons of Chinese products (to save money) and then complain about all of the jobs going off-shore. Some things, you just can't explain. ;-)
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #345
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Many see investment as an evil activity of the rich, not as necessary for economic growth. They like buying things made by, and working for corporations, they just want those evil rich folks to share the wealth with them, via gov't handouts, rather than create any more of it. Many go to Walmart and buy tons of Chinese products (to save money) and then complain about all of the jobs going off-shore. Some things, you just can't explain. ;-)
    I think we should make a deal with them.
    We'll go along with taxing investments as regular income, as long as they match loss write offs, to the current tax rates and make them refundable.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #346
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Investing isn't betting.
    Gambling is based on randomness and chance, while investing is based on past history and companies ability to earn income.
    There is some chance involved, but it's not pure chance, like gambling is.

    Investment income is different from wages, there is no guarantee.
    This type of income is typically deferred for long periods of time and it rewards greater investment in the economy.
    So that the economy can grow.
    I did use RED as an example earlier but I could just as easily have used "Lucky Lady in the 5th" for betting on a horse and it wouldn't be much different than what you described - past history of both the horse and jockey.

    I will give you the last bit, though, your winnings are deferred when you gamble on stocks. If you want a fast return you might consider a savings account. CD's also pay with deferred savings but it's still taxed as regular income. Why is that???



    I'm not sure we should necessarily give people tax breaks for "investing in the economy" when that economy could just as easily be in China or India. Why should we care if money builds a plant in China to make widgets for Germans or other Chinese?

    If you would like a break for American investment then I might see it as reasonable. Otherwise it's just an excuse for some to pay less than others.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  7. #347
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I think we should make a deal with them.
    We'll go along with taxing investments as regular income, as long as they match loss write offs, to the current tax rates and make them refundable.
    Are you trying to say you can't deduct losses from gains? Or can't defer losses?
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #348
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Many see investment as an evil activity of the rich, not as necessary for economic growth. They like buying things made by, and working for corporations, they just want those evil rich folks to share the wealth with them, via gov't handouts, rather than create any more of it. Many go to Walmart and buy tons of Chinese products (to save money) and then complain about all of the jobs going off-shore. Some things, you just can't explain. ;-)
    Of course it's necessary for economic growth but there are two problems here. First off, consumer spending is also required for economic growth as almost every business in America is experiencing right now. There's plenty of money for investment but who's expanding? No one because product is stacked up on warehouse shelves now. Secondly, as I noted above, I see no reason to reward investing money in China or India. You want to invest it here at home that's one thing but betting on a Chinese widget manufacturer isn't worth special treatment in America.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #349
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I did use RED as an example earlier but I could just as easily have used "Lucky Lady in the 5th" for betting on a horse and it wouldn't be much different than what you described - past history of both the horse and jockey.

    I will give you the last bit, though, your winnings are deferred when you gamble on stocks. If you want a fast return you might consider a savings account. CD's also pay with deferred savings but it's still taxed as regular income. Why is that???



    I'm not sure we should necessarily give people tax breaks for "investing in the economy" when that economy could just as easily be in China or India. Why should we care if money builds a plant in China to make widgets for Germans or other Chinese?

    If you would like a break for American investment then I might see it as reasonable. Otherwise it's just an excuse for some to pay less than others.
    Exactly, targeted tax cuts for those actually creating American jobs makes sense. Giving someone a tax cut just because they are rich, is just plain stupid.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #350
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what were people paying before the new deal
    I really don't know. I've been trying to find information on total taxation between all 3 levels of government through history, and it's hard to find. I've basically given up.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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