View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #21
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post

    Oh, and tax capital gains as standard income.
    Reagan thought the same thing, yet the GOP in congress today won't even consider it.
    Last edited by Catawba; 06-03-12 at 03:50 AM.
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Which is why I question what defintion we're using. If by fair, we mean fair for the society, to keep America strong, then at least a regression to the pre-Bush tax cuts would be warranted. There is a valid and proper reason we and other countries have relied on a progressive tax.

    However, I think some are look for a mathimatical definition of fair, like with a falt tax, same percentage. This has a certain fairness in that everyone carries some of the burden, but that does increase the burden on those least able to handle it and doesn't help grow the middle class, which is essential to the success of this country.
    A flat tax doesn't distribute 'burden' evenly. Distributing burden evenly would be making it as difficult/easy for everyone to meet their tax obligation. The middle class citizen has a harder time paying ten dollars in taxes than a billionaire does paying 100 million. And we could argue endlessly about how to measure burden, but it certainly has zero to do with the percentage people pay.

    But more to your point, yes a return to Clinton levels might be the ultimate goal, but something more drastic may be in order for the short term.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Nope. As referenced above:
    reading comprehension much?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    A regressive income tax would be one that taxed the lower brackets at higher rates.
    We are talking about income taxes, not sales taxes.

  4. #24
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    A flat tax doesn't distribute 'burden' evenly. Distributing burden evenly would be making it as difficult/easy for everyone to meet their tax obligation. The middle class citizen has a harder time paying ten dollars in taxes than a billionaire does paying 100 million. And we could argue endlessly about how to measure burden, but it certainly has zero to do with the percentage people pay.

    But more to your point, yes a return to Clinton levels might be the ultimate goal, but something more drastic may be in order for the short term.
    I think I said that in this sentence:

    . This has a certain fairness in that everyone carries some of the burden, but that does increase the burden on those least able to handle it and doesn't help grow the middle class, which is essential to the success of this country.

    I think some mistake what they see as mathimatical fairness for fairness. That's why I asked for a definition.

    I think a return is a reasonable start. And something that really shouldn't be objected to. But, I'd be willing to pay more than that myself.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #25
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    reading comprehension much?

    We are talking about income taxes, not sales taxes.


    You are proposing eliminating the sales tax????
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #26
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    ...lower income consumers are more affected by it because they are less able to afford it.
    Catawba, I don't buy this "socialised" fallacy. "Les able to afford it"? Give me a break!
    Then let's price everything according to "affordability". The poor will pay cheaper than middle class for electricity, water, gasoline, bread, etc., etc. The rich will pay more, accordingly... Bumps have no income, so let's sell them everything for free. This is absurd, this is upside down!
    Last edited by Canell; 06-03-12 at 04:34 AM.

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Catawba, I don't buy this "socialised" fallacy. "Les able to afford it"? Give me a break!
    Then let's price everything according to "affordability". The poor will pay cheaper than middle class for electricity, water, gasoline, bread, etc., etc. The rich will pay more, accordingly... Bumps have no income, so let's sell them everything for free. This is absurd, this is upside down!
    You have yet to prove it is a socialized fallacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    A flat tax doesn't distribute 'burden' evenly. Distributing burden evenly would be making it as difficult/easy for everyone to meet their tax obligation. The middle class citizen has a harder time paying ten dollars in taxes than a billionaire does paying 100 million. And we could argue endlessly about how to measure burden, but it certainly has zero to do with the percentage people pay.

    But more to your point, yes a return to Clinton levels might be the ultimate goal, but something more drastic may be in order for the short term.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You have yet to prove it is a socialized fallacy.
    OK, how come someone has to be "able to afford it" in the first place? Where is this notion coming from ?
    You get what you can afford. It may be hard but that's life.

  9. #29
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No - it is a "flat" tax. A regressive income tax would be one that taxed the lower brackets at higher rates. However, flat tax of all income over a certain threshold (say, 200% of the poverty line) is progressive. The more you earn, the further you get away from that line, and the larger percentage of your total income you pay in taxes. At a "flat" rate of 20% for income above that line, the guy making $40,000 with a wife and two kids pays nothing, the guy making $70,000 with a wife and two kids pays 6.8%, the guy with a wife and two kids making $250,000 pays 16.3%.
    Romney paid 13% and GE paid nothing....give it a rest marine...they rich skate on most of their responsibility and a family making 250k is not rich....they are the ones getting screwed the most...the middle to upper middleclass

  10. #30
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    I think all this talk of who is paying their fair share in taxes is pointless and unhelpful. Could the rich afford to pay more in taxes? Of course they could. Most people could afford to pay more. Should the rich pay more in taxes? For the time being, yes, they probably should. Paying off our massive government debt is going to require revenue increases. I don't see any way around it. And the wealthy are most able to handle a further small loss of income. However that's not to say that others shouldn't also pay more if they're able to.

    In the long run, I'd like to see our tax system completely rewritten to be a lot simpler. All of the loopholes that everyone uses to pay less taxes would be removed, but tax rates would go down as well, since people would actually be paying the full tax rate.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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