View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #261
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    OK, so the system is false but that's no reason to fix it with wrong decisions (different prices for different classes). It is sad to what mess socialism (big government) leads.
    The Progressive tax has been accepted by both parties under our rule of law for the last hundred years. It is only the far-right that find it socialistic today.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #262
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the top one percent should not be paying more than 22% of the income tax if they receive 22% of the income.
    "Top 1 Percent Control 42 Percent of Financial Wealth in the U.S." So by your reasoning, they should be paying a 42% tax rate.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #263
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    IS it EARNED? I promise you...I lay out the investment capital. I take the risk. It is absolutely 'earned'. Is it TAXED the same way? No. But is it earned? You bet. The only ones that see it otherwise are people with little to no skin in the game.
    That's like a gambler saying he earned his Big Score. LOL!

    No one is buying the crap so you may as well stop shoveling.
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    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
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  4. #264
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    That's like a gambler saying he earned his Big Score. LOL!

    No one is buying the crap so you may as well stop shoveling.
    So ya got no clothes. Got it.

    Yeah...you tell that to the average American that lost his and/or her ass on their 401ks.

  5. #265
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    No. It is taxed three times. Once when it is initially earned as wage income (then used to buy the stock), again when it is earned as corporate income and a third time when it is paid out as a stock dividend back to the shareholder. ;-)
    That's a big assumption to take thinking it starts as wages somewhere.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  6. #266
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Top 1 Percent Control 42 Percent of Financial Wealth in the U.S." So by your reasoning, they should be paying a 42% tax rate.
    We are talking about an income tax not a wealth tax, so by INCOME the top 1% make 22% of income, so their rate under your bizzarre scheme would then be 22%. ;-)
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  7. #267
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The Progressive tax has been accepted by both parties under our rule of law for the last hundred years. It is only the far-right that find it socialistic today.
    The simple and effective way to deal with that "income disparity" is by using the "standard" deduction; by exempting the first $10K from FIT and applying a single rate of 20% taxation on all income above that point you get a "fair" yet "progressive" basis for taxation. Consider the following example: Citizen A makes $20K/year, while citizen B makes $100K/year; Citizen A pays $2K in taxes or 10% of their gross income, while citizen B pays $18K in taxes or 18% of their gross income. Wasn't that easy and "fair"? A FIT code with only two numbers, won't the lobbyists be mad?
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-04-12 at 07:45 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #268
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    So ya got no clothes. Got it.

    Yeah...you tell that to the average American that lost his and/or her ass on their 401ks.
    Exactly why I think privatizing the SSA is the stupidest idea yet!!!

    It's still not "earned" - it's a bet people make with money. If they wanted to keep their money safe they would have put it in a savings account instead of a 401k.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #269
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    You make it sound like if you simply CHOOSE to make only enough to sustain yourself (and as big a family as you desire) then you have no tax obligation at all.
    I suppose you could look at it that way. However you, I, and several others have already pointed out in this thread that most people don't choose to be poor. Most don't choose to make only enough money to buy the basic necessities. Now there might be some people that would choose to do that, but that number would be so low as to be irrelevant on the scale of the country as a whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is INSANE. You then convert income tax into basically a luxury tax.
    And what if it is? I don't think that's insane at all. The fact that you think someone can (or would) pay income tax when they're barely able to put food on the table for their kids is far more insane.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The simple answer is that if you can not afford to raise a child that you wait until you can to have that child, not that you trade raising a child for paying your income taxes. If you can not afford a big house then you live in a smaller one or share one. As it is now, I pay for the education of the children for those that pay no taxes at all, plus the money to feed and house those ADULTS that chose to have them, that is insane.
    Once again, that's a nice simple answer, but it's too simple for the real world. Let's say a family of four is living on $50,000 a year. Mom is making $10,000 a year working in the evenings (so that they don't have to pay for child care) and dad is making $40,000 a year working on the line at an auto assembly plant. Neither one has a college degree that would allow them to get a more lucrative job. Assuming the $10,000 deduction you suggested, and a tax rate of 20%. They pay $8,000 in taxes. Let's say it takes $30,000 to buy basic necessities for their family of four. Currently, they're doing okay. They bring home $42,000 a year after taxes. Plenty to live on and still afford a few luxuries. Then a recession hits, and dad loses his job. He finds another job, but it only pays minimum wage, so now he's only making $16,000 a year. Mom is able to switch to full time second shift, so her salary goes up to $16,000 a year as well. Now, together, they're making $32,000 a year. After taxes though, they're only bringing home $27,600. That's not enough to meet their basic needs. Now which do you think that family will choose to do, go hungry, or not pay their taxes?

    The numbers in the scenario might not be completely realistic, but it serves to illustrate my point. People may choose to have children when they have enough money to do so, and later find themselves in worse financial circumstances that make it much harder to afford the size family they have. What are those people supposed to do? Just give their kids up for adoption? Or are people supposed to never have kids even if they can currently afford them, but at some point in the future they might not be able to? That would more than likely result in the extinction of the human race. Congratulations, you've just wiped out our species.
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  10. #270
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The simple and effective way to deal with that "income disparity" is by using the "standard" deduction; by exempting the first $10K from FIT and applying a single rate of 20% taxation to all income above that point you get a "fair" yet "progressive" basis for taxation. Consider the following example: Citizen A makes $20K/year, while citizen B makes $100K/year; Citizen A pays $2K in taxes or 10% of their gross income, while citizen B pays $18K in taxes or 18% of their gross income. Wasn't that easy and "fair"? A FIT code with only two numbers, won't the lobbyists be mad?
    You've posted this a million times so I'll address it. Change the deduction to 4x the poverty level and adjust the tax rate as needed to fit.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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