View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #221
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    MoSurveyor's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    I'm not going to flee in the face of adversity. I'm also not going to give in to the demands of the self entitled generation.
    Then you obviously prefer conflict over tranquility.

    I have no clue what this "self-entitled" thing is you're going on about, though.
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  2. #222
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    Sounds more like an incentive to move up in the world, to me.
    You don't seem to be getting it either. I'm not sure why, since the concept is fairly simple. Not everyone can move up in the world. Not everyone can become wealthy, or even middle class. There will always be someone at the base of the totem pole, and those people don't get paid much. It may not be the same people all the time, but it's always going to be roughly the same number.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    Plus, janitorial work can actually pay pretty well. I made more as a janitor, than I did as a Soldier.
    Okay, then that was a bad example. I've never done janitorial work, so I don't know what it pays. Just insert some menial job that doesn't pay much instead.
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  3. #223
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the top one percent should not be paying more than 22% of the income tax if they receive 22% of the income.
    I wonder what percentage of the discretionary income those people receive? If we take away the income necessary to just buy the basics. Subtract what it costs to buy enough simple food to live on, a cheap apartment, basic clothes, care for your kids (if you have them), transportation to and from work from everyone's salary and call the rest discretionary income. I wonder what percentage the top one percent would receive then?
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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  4. #224
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you could have different tax rates on different items but that really wouldn't achieve what you want. and its rather silly to determine what is a luxury without knowing why something is being bought. For some guy on welfare-a wide screen TV is a luxury. For someone whose business is a sports bar not so much. For a suburban housewife, a big diesel truck is a luxury-for a contractor hauling lots of tools-nope.
    I'm sure it could be done though. You could make taxes higher on items that cost more than a certain fraction of your annual salary. Or you could do some research and discover what sorts of items people in the top 1% often buy that others don't, and tax those items more heavily.

    Again, I'm not saying it's a good idea. And you may be right that it's a little more difficult to figure out exactly how to do it with a sales tax than an income tax. My point is just that it could be done, so a sales tax won't necessarily guarantee that the majority can't vote for higher taxes on the minority, which is the goal you seem to have in mind. So what if it's more complicated? Having a complicated tax code has never seemed to bother politicians up to this point, I don't see why it would in the future if it served their goals.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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  5. #225
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I wonder what percentage of the discretionary income those people receive? If we take away the income necessary to just buy the basics. Subtract what it costs to buy enough simple food to live on, a cheap apartment, basic clothes, care for your kids (if you have them), transportation to and from work from everyone's salary and call the rest discretionary income. I wonder what percentage the top one percent would receive then?
    The simple and effective way to deal with that is by using the "standard" deduction; by exempting the first $10K from FIT and applying a single rate of taxation to all income above that point you get a "fair" yet "progressive" basis for taxation. Using a 20% taxation rate and $10K standard deduction consider the following example: Citizen A makes $20K/year, while citizen B makes $100K/year; Citizen A pays $2K in taxes or 10% of their gross income, citizen B pays $18K in taxes or 18% of their gross income. Wasn't that easy and "fair"? A FIT code with only two numbers, won't the lobbyists be mad?
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-04-12 at 06:20 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #226
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I guess nobody wants to answer so I will post anyhow. If you are offended, too bad. First of all I asked the question how many of you own a business or run one because I wanted to know if any of you have any true idea of the tax code is and why it is so convoluted, to use a mild term. If you are employed you are being taxed the highest, by PAYING your taxes FIRST then SPENDING what is left over SECOND. Businesses on the other hand SPEND their money FIRST, then PAY taxes on the leftovers SECOND. Most people who are in congress are fairly wealthy, and they wish to keep it. Most congressmen did NOT make their money being EMPLOYED. They did it though investing, or owning a buisness, or inherintence. Hence the laws are going to be such that they will be able to keep and make more wealth. If you are employed you will most likely NEVER gain any appreaciable wealth. To gain wealth requires calculated risk by investment, in youself, or others. Thats just the way things are rigged in this country. I am the owner of a corporation, I pay as little tax as I possibly can leagaly. Most of my money that I spend is BEFORE it is taxed. This gives me a huge advantage over someone who is just employed as I reduce my gross income down to a fraction of that of the employed person, with that spending. The courts say I have absolutely no obligation to pay more. I will not. I would rather spend my money on assets or with other people, then spend it on the goverment. I consider my self taxed too much because I have to spend so much time considering the Tax ramifications of anything I do. I have to employ accountants and lawers to make help me take advantage of every tax loophole or exculsion I can. This is money I can use otherwise to upgrade equipment, employ people and sponser more charities. This is time and effort that could be used to be more productive and take advantage of more opportunities.

    If I am going to be miserable, I d rather be wealthy. I dont know anyone who does not want to be wealthy. Wealth is FREEDOM. The goal of every American ought to be Finacially independent and then free. Wealth allows you the freendom to stand up for yourself, your priciples.

    Taxes in my opinion should be no more then 10% total all inclusive on your SPENDING. That includes state and local taxes. If its good enough for god, its good enough for goverment. The locals would collect it and keep 40% and pass the rest to the state. The state would then keep 50% and give 50% to the feds. The totals would break down this way Locals get 40%, state and feds get 30% each, for a total of 100%. The tax would be on all NEW goods and on services. No exemptions. No other tax or fee or other goverment revenue collection would be allowed. The locals would have their state by the short and curlies, and the states would have the feds by the short and curlys as well. This would apply to everyone and every business. Sweet and simple, and equitable.

    Thats my take. Cheers.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    No, not really. You've made your opinion all too clear.

    The problem is the same as it's always been. The rich want one standard for themselves and another for everyone else. Nothing new to see here ...
    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    (emphasis added)

    Read: "If you don't want to pay taxes then don't buy anything!"

    Exactly what I said earlier, discourage people from buying.


    A long-ass paragraph with pretty graphics (gee, did the wife 'pic' those for you?) to say exactly the same thing over, and over, and over. Are you going to do it again?!?!? I'll paste and copy my response next time.
    If you charge em 50% then hell yea nobody would buy anything. I would buy under the table myself. If you charge outragous tax expect it to be avoided. Look at new york with their cigerate tax they have a huge problem with bootlegging. Why cause they are greedy.
    Wall street has a saying."Bulls make money, bears make money, and pigs get slaughtered." As true a saying as there ever was. The most total tax anyone should have to pay is 10%. Anything other is BS. You would have gotten that if you actually bothered to read the post. I am going to presume you are in a foul mood today and not call you out. That is subject to change depending on my mood and your further posts. By the way my mom picked the pics not my wife.
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  7. #227
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I wonder what percentage of the discretionary income those people receive? If we take away the income necessary to just buy the basics. Subtract what it costs to buy enough simple food to live on, a cheap apartment, basic clothes, care for your kids (if you have them), transportation to and from work from everyone's salary and call the rest discretionary income. I wonder what percentage the top one percent would receive then?
    Define 'receive'. Is there some magic gifting program from the federal money fairy that is 'giving' the 1% their income? Or the top 7%? Cuz...funny...I thought we EARNED it.

  8. #228
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post

    My bad I did not make my point well enough. Those people are NOT for the most part going to be Janitors ect. for the REST of their lives unless they actively choose to. Most people with any common sense move up and beyond simply because they have increased their salable skills themselves or found another opportunity. To be honest with you anybody that is a janitor after 20 years and not own there own company, is either A. a goverment employee, B. unmotivated C. a speacial needs case. In either case it not my responability or the responsibility of government to cater to them.(cases A and B.) Case C speacial needs is just that. Thats why we have charitable orginizations. Those menial jobs you keep talking about are not ment as careers they are stepping stones. If they are looked at as other well I cant help stupid, and I aint about to try. I used to do janitorial work, and made pizzas and did a lot of menial manual labor when I was younger, I dont anymore. As do MOST of my contemporaies. I still do a bit of manual labor on occasion, but I get triple digit hourly pay for it. (I hate doing it and I try to discorage it by charging utterly ridiculus amounts to do it, but some people have more money than sense. ) If you are 40 and have only made minimum wage for your life and have a familiy to boot, then I can say with absolute surity you are a unmotivated fool. To be honest I cant think of too many jobs where someone with the least amount of motivation cannot move up in position responsibility and pay. I am acually finding it hard now that I really think about it. In my opinion the whole notion of the working poor is complete and utter BS now that I really think about it. If you lose your job and got to work at Mcdonalds or else where I really doubt you are going to be stuck doing that for the rest of your life with out at least attempting to do something about it. This is really starting to T me off.
    I'm not saying everyone will be stuck doing menial labor for ****ty money their whole lives. I'm saying that over time, the number of people doing menial labor for ****ty money will remain roughly constant. As people get older and advance into more lucrative positions, new young people will take their places. And since (as far as I know) it's not legal to defer your taxes for 20 years until you make a decent salary, some consideration needs to be given for the people in menial jobs making crappy money, even though later in life they might be better off. Which is really the point I'm trying to make.

    When determining tax rates, it doesn't really matter if a family that's only making $25,000 a year is going to be making $50,000 a year in 10 years. They're making $25,000 a year now, and taxes need to take that into consideration.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  9. #229
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Define 'receive'. Is there some magic gifting program from the federal money fairy that is 'giving' the 1% their income? Or the top 7%? Cuz...funny...I thought we EARNED it.
    That is not "fair", we all know that "investment" income is not real and should be taxed at a super high rate so that the gov't can redistribute it "farily" to the "needy". Only those "rich" that work really, really hard like entertainers or sports stars should get taxed at lower rates. ;-)
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #230
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    Cool Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    So we have to sacrifice our personal lives and personalities to become workoholic zombies, or else we deserve to be dissatisfied economically? The grind creates greedhead monsters, who become a danger to society, their neglected heirs, and themselves. In order to win a rat race, you have to become a rat. Why become road kill for these racing rodents, who think of themselves as high achievers as they go faster and faster when their obsessive greed grows larger and larger and can never satisfy them? They and the economies they run ragged finally crack up and drain an exhausted national spirit.
    Great thing about this country is YOU get to pick your poison. If dont like the rat race dont be in it. Just expect not to get very far. Lifes a bitch then you die. Its not fair. You want money you have to earn it. I have a goal and I need money to achieve it. So I work my butt off to get what I want. There are many ways to achieve what you want, unfortunately for you and me they mostly involve work of some kind.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

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