View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #201
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Its more complicated than that. If you demand X amount of government services or use X amount of government services but someone else has to pay more taxes than you do so you can enjoy that x amount of government services than they are giving you money
    What government services do I use? You can keep the military. My little kingdom isn't worth spending $2000/year to have the government defend it. (I still left $2000/year for escort duty but by all rights business ought to pay for that!!!) I don't give a **** about airports, either, so you can scrape the FAA and that whole system, what do I care? I seldom use the freeway, it's mostly local streets and highway paid for by local taxes. Uncle Sam pays damn little to my school system - we can make up for that easily. Unless you've got some Big Ticket item up you sleeve that I missed most of my Fed tax money isn't used for me or mine. Get a clue, you're not the only one that "pays for nothing" selfish --- the only difference is I don't bitch about it everyday because I think it's necessary for society.
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  2. #202
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    What government services do I use? You can keep the military. My little kingdom isn't worth spending $2000/year to have the government defend it. (I still left $2000/year for escort duty but by all rights business ought to pay for that!!!) I don't give a **** about airports, either, so you can scrape the FAA and that whole system, what do I care? I seldom use the freeway, it's mostly local streets and highway paid for by local taxes. Uncle Sam pays damn little to my school system - we can make up for that easily. Unless you've got some Big Ticket item up you sleeve that I missed most of my Fed tax money isn't used for me or mine. Get a clue, you're not the only one that "pays for nothing" selfish --- the only difference is I don't bitch about it everyday because I think it's necessary for society.
    in other words your claim that everything you have you earned is not accurate. The military protects everyone. You cannot say your life is worth less than someone else's. Do you know what income level is normally the break between being a net federal tax payer vs a net tax consumer? I have heard several numbers but all of them end up being around 115K of earned income a year-slightly more if its only investment income

  3. #203
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    capital gains are also subject to much more risk than salary which is another reason why they are taxed lower. dividends are taxed lower because the same pile of money has already suffered a massive government grab before they are distributed
    Risk?!? Please. You and I are both well aware of the risk. Sell that to someone else, don't push it here.
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  4. #204
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    in other words your claim that everything you have you earned is not accurate. The military protects everyone. You cannot say your life is worth less than someone else's. Do you know what income level is normally the break between being a net federal tax payer vs a net tax consumer? I have heard several numbers but all of them end up being around 115K of earned income a year-slightly more if its only investment income
    I certainly can say my life is worth less if I'm willing to give it up. Would you FORCE ME to buy life insurance?!? In essence that's what you're saying here.

    I'm a simple person so I don't care what other people need, or rather think they need, in their day-to-day lives or what other things are going on out there in Lala Land beyond my limited, little world - so why should I be required to pay for it?!? For example, as noted earlier they can trash the entire airline industry and I wouldn't care. In fact, I want my breathable and quiet air back from those stinking and noisy aircraft!

    So your "numbers" are worthless to me because they're no doubt based on assumptions that I need this and I need that when, in fact, I don't need all that crap!
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  5. #205
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    What government services do I use? You can keep the military. My little kingdom isn't worth spending $2000/year to have the government defend it. (I still left $2000/year for escort duty but by all rights business ought to pay for that!!!) I don't give a **** about airports, either, so you can scrape the FAA and that whole system, what do I care? I seldom use the freeway, it's mostly local streets and highway paid for by local taxes. Uncle Sam pays damn little to my school system - we can make up for that easily. Unless you've got some Big Ticket item up you sleeve that I missed most of my Fed tax money isn't used for me or mine. Get a clue, you're not the only one that "pays for nothing" selfish --- the only difference is I don't bitch about it everyday because I think it's necessary for society.
    LOL. Much of what you claim not to need or want is benefitting you whether you see that or not. Let me attempt to respond, point by point, to your posted points. National defense preserves ALL of your rights by assuring that no other nation can take advantage of you; that includes not only your personal safety but all trade agreements that you benefit from. You may not care about air travel, for your own use, but certainly don't want aircraft buzzing your home or dropping on it from lack of regulation. You may not wish to use large freeways, but certainly enjoy the benefits of them for getting goods trucked in to that local store that you shop in and keeping heavy truck traffic off of many of your local roadways. Education, I will grant you, is not a federal responsibility but your state will not turn down that "free"" federal money offered to it, and your state/local taxes are thus kept artificially low. I agree that many federal expenses are out of control, especially social services that are basically simply income redistribution and that many federal programs are loaded with inefficiency, fraud and serve little purpose other than to perpetuate a permanently gov't dependent underclass. You must remember that YOUR representatives in DC depend on your vote, as well as your tax money, to keep this nonsense going. Vote early and vote often to attempt to change this madness.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-04-12 at 10:49 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #206
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    LOL. Much of what you claim not to need or want is benefitting you whether you see that or not. Let me attempt to respond, point by point, to your posted points. National defense preserves ALL of your rights by assuring that no other nation can take advantage of you; that includes not only your personal safety but all trade agreements that you benefit from. You may not care about air travel, for your own use, but certainly don't want aircraft buzzing your home or dropping on it from lack of regulation. You may not wish to use large freeways, but certainly enjoy the benefits of them for getting goods trucked in to that local store that you shop in and keeping heavy truck traffic off of many of your local roadways. Education, I will grant you, is not a federal responsibility but your state will not turn down that "free"" federal money offered to it, and your state/local taxes are thus kept artificially low. I agree that many federal expenses are out of control, especially social services that are basically simply income redistribution and that many federal programs are loaded with inefficiency, fraud and serve little purpose other than to perpetuate a permanently gov't dependent underclass. You must remember that YOUR representatives in DC depend on your vote, as well as your tax money, to keep this nonsense going. Vote early and vote often to attempt to change this madness.
    Most of it doesn't benefit me at all! That's the point. YOU may think it does because YOU need it - but I don't need it, so it doesn't benefit me.

    I allocated $2000/year for the military to provide trade route protection, which by all rights should be paid for with company money. So that's fine, I'll switch that $2000/year to personal protection. The thing is, even if the military were only 1/5th it's size - that's a whopping $800/year for my wife and I - it would still be the biggest gorilla in the cage. Besides, push comes to shove I've got the Constitution and Missouri National Guard for protection. Lot's of woods and hills around here, not easy to capture. Good luck, Mexico.

    Planes should be shot down, we don't need them except the Militia for combat use.
    In fact, I should sue every airline for disturbing the peace and endangering my health.

    Let businesses pay for the freeways. You're taxing and charging for consumption anyway. Let's make sure the cost of something actually equals what it costs!

    I can make up the education differences. I already addressed this issue. Lame. NEXT!

    Oh, you're out of issues and not one of which isn't better covered in another way. Let the companies pay for it all and increase their product costs likewise. That way when I buy a local tomato I'm not paying for a patch of freeway in BFE that I never use or a carrier guarding a shipping lane I don't need.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-04-12 at 11:23 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  7. #207
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    This is the problem right here. Yes, anyone can do it. Not everyone can do it. Yes, maybe the janitor will end up owning the janitorial company, and maybe the burger flipper will end up being the store manager someday. But that doesn't reduce the need for janitors and burger flippers. There are always going to be some doing the menial unskilled labor in this country, and unless we decide to pay those people more, those people are always going to be relatively poor.
    My bad I did not make my point well enough. Those people are NOT for the most part going to be Janitors ect. for the REST of their lives unless they actively choose to. Most people with any common sense move up and beyond simply because they have increased their salable skills themselves or found another opportunity. To be honest with you anybody that is a janitor after 20 years and not own there own company, is either A. a goverment employee, B. unmotivated C. a speacial needs case. In either case it not my responability or the responsibility of government to cater to them.(cases A and B.) Case C speacial needs is just that. Thats why we have charitable orginizations. Those menial jobs you keep talking about are not ment as careers they are stepping stones. If they are looked at as other well I cant help stupid, and I aint about to try. I used to do janitorial work, and made pizzas and did a lot of menial manual labor when I was younger, I dont anymore. As do MOST of my contemporaies. I still do a bit of manual labor on occasion, but I get triple digit hourly pay for it. (I hate doing it and I try to discorage it by charging utterly ridiculus amounts to do it, but some people have more money than sense. ) If you are 40 and have only made minimum wage for your life and have a familiy to boot, then I can say with absolute surity you are a unmotivated fool. To be honest I cant think of too many jobs where someone with the least amount of motivation cannot move up in position responsibility and pay. I am acually finding it hard now that I really think about it. In my opinion the whole notion of the working poor is complete and utter BS now that I really think about it. If you lose your job and got to work at Mcdonalds or else where I really doubt you are going to be stuck doing that for the rest of your life with out at least attempting to do something about it. This is really starting to T me off.
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  8. #208
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Let's review. Capital gains taxes are lower because, in theory, if it's taxed less then people will invest more.

    Now you want to tax consumption, which by the same principle means you want to discourage consumption.
    In other words, you believe there is too much consumer demand right now, which is why you want to tax it.

    LOL! Who are you trying to kid?!?
    Dude you need to read the rest of my tread. Really.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
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  9. #209
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I earn mine, no one gives me any money.


    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  10. #210
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Okay, you do have a point, so I will retract my use of the word "ridiculous". However, I still think it's overstated. You can find more benefits and do have some additional control, but to be fair, medical costs are deductible from regular income taxes. In most cases where you either take a draw or spend on something personal, you still end up paying income taxes on that. As for the GE issue, the shareholders still pay income taxes even though corporate taxes were evaded. When the money ends up being income for someone, the taxes are still paid.

    I'm structured S-Corp which has benefits, but if I put any money in my pocket or spend it on my family, I still pay some sort of taxes. I do get to choose between CG and income, though. At my current earnings, FIT is cheaper.
    I hear you. I would like to point out, that the IRS code, if you printed it on standard paper and in fine print, would kill a large mammal if dropped from a height of 10ft. So my unsolicited advice would be not to stand under a printed copy of the IRS code, it may be hazardous to your health.
    Last edited by PirateMk1; 06-04-12 at 01:56 PM.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

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