View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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    82 45.30%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #11
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by NotEliTanenbaum View Post
    What do you think?
    Define fair share. It really does depend on working definition we're using.

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    No. Only a flat tax can give you that.
    But then, the tax system is so out of balance (complicated and like a Swiss cheese), so a flat tax per se wouldn't really matter now.
    A flat tax is regressive. That is the opposite direction needed.

    "Definition of 'Regressive Tax'
    A tax that takes a larger percentage from low-income people than from high-income people. A regressive tax is generally a tax that is applied uniformly. This means that it hits lower-income individuals harder.

    Investopedia explains 'Regressive Tax'
    Some examples include gas tax and cigarette tax. For example, if a person has $10 of income and must pay $1 of tax on a package of cigarettes, this represents 10% of the person's income. However, if the person has $20 of income, this $1 tax only represents 5% of that person's income.

    Sales taxes that apply to essentials are generally considered to be regressive as well because expenses for food, clothing and shelter tend to make up a higher percentage of a lower income consumer's overall budget. In this case, even though the tax may be uniform (such as 7% sales tax), lower income consumers are more affected by it because they are less able to afford it."


    Read more: Regressive Tax Definition | Investopedia
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Definition of 'Regressive Tax'
    Sorry, I don't buy that. This is some socialistic gibberish, trying to present solidarity as justice. NO!

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    There is no such thing as a 'fair' share; or, at least, it is not as important as other things.

    There is an optimal progressivity to the tax structure which yields the greatest prosperity for the middle class. This is the 'correct' level of tax burden distribution. Currently, there is too much money in the hands of the already wealthy... so much so that they collectively cannot find enough opportunities which are worthy of their investment. Simply put, the middle class and poor cannot consume everything the investor class could produce. This is inefficient toward the goal of overall optimal prosperity.

    In brief, we need the 'Goldilocks' level of taxation of the wealthy, not what is 'fair'.
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    A flat tax is regressive.
    No - it is a "flat" tax. A regressive income tax would be one that taxed the lower brackets at higher rates. However, flat tax of all income over a certain threshold (say, 200% of the poverty line) is progressive. The more you earn, the further you get away from that line, and the larger percentage of your total income you pay in taxes. At a "flat" rate of 20% for income above that line, the guy making $40,000 with a wife and two kids pays nothing, the guy making $70,000 with a wife and two kids pays 6.8%, the guy with a wife and two kids making $250,000 pays 16.3%.
    Last edited by cpwill; 06-03-12 at 03:28 AM.

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    There is no such thing as a 'fair' share; or, at least, it is not as important as other things.

    There is an optimal progressivity to the tax structure which yields the greatest prosperity for the middle class. This is the 'correct' level of tax burden distribution. Currently, there is too much money in the hands of the already wealthy... so much so that they collectively cannot find enough opportunities which are worthy of their investment. Simply put, the middle class and poor cannot consume everything the investor class could produce. This is inefficient toward the goal of overall optimal prosperity.

    In brief, we need the 'Goldilocks' level of taxation of the wealthy, not what is 'fair'.
    Which is why I question what defintion we're using. If by fair, we mean fair for the society, to keep America strong, then at least a regression to the pre-Bush tax cuts would be warranted. There is a valid and proper reason we and other countries have relied on a progressive tax.

    However, I think some are look for a mathimatical definition of fair, like with a falt tax, same percentage. This has a certain fairness in that everyone carries some of the burden, but that does increase the burden on those least able to handle it and doesn't help grow the middle class, which is essential to the success of this country.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    The purpose of a tax code is not to be fair. Asking a tax code to be fair is kinda stupid since no two people will agree on what fair is(except maybe that they themselves should pay less). An ideally designed tax code should bring in enough revenue to do what the people think is necessary for the government to do(ie, pay the bills), while minimizing the effect of the tax on those paying it.
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    "Fair" is the wrong question. Progressive taxation is necessary and appropriate, and it should have more bracket, higher top rates and fewer deductions. I'm not gonna weep for people paying high marginal rates under the current tax code.

    Oh, and tax capital gains as standard income.

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Sorry, I don't buy that. This is some socialistic gibberish, trying to present solidarity as justice. NO!
    You don't buy math??? That helps to explain why you think a flat tax is fair.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No - it is a "flat" tax. A regressive income tax would be one that taxed the lower brackets at higher rates.
    Nope. As referenced above:

    "Some examples include gas tax and cigarette tax. For example, if a person has $10 of income and must pay $1 of tax on a package of cigarettes, this represents 10% of the person's income. However, if the person has $20 of income, this $1 tax only represents 5% of that person's income.

    Sales taxes that apply to essentials are generally considered to be regressive as well because expenses for food, clothing and shelter tend to make up a higher percentage of a lower income consumer's overall budget. In this case, even though the tax may be uniform (such as 7% sales tax), lower income consumers are more affected by it because they are less able to afford it.

    Read more: Regressive Tax Definition | Investopedia
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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