View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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    82 45.30%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #181
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Admittedly I wasn't replying just to you. A few who liked your thread have debarted with me on the wealthy benefiting more issue. So, I was trying to address that for them as well as you.

    As for appropriately? Not as sure. They look like more because more people have fallen below the line today. They have paid more in the past, and we did quite well. So did they. Finding what is appropriate is more difficult. Sometimes when things are going badly, those who can have to pich in more. We do that in our own lives as well. I can remember working three jobs. What is appropriate is not divorced from need IMHO.
    I have to disagree. When it comes to how much they benefit, they pay higher taxes on the individual benefits. This is why I say appropriately. Additionally, if we are discussing businesses specifically (rather than wealthy individuals), an increase in taxes actually becomes a regressive (technically flat) penalty for the poor. Businesses will pass on the tax cost to the consumer, raising prices for everyone in equal amounts. I know that I have to compensate for my taxes in my business by raising my prices. This results in lower income families not even being able to afford the home maintenance services I offer.

    If you are talking about increasing taxes on the wealthy, I still disagree, but for different reasons. Again, I point to the difference in types of taxes. We are already in a progressive system. Throwing more money at the government to play around with doesn't equal giving to those in need. If we cut out wasteful spending and managed better, there is already enough money to assist those in need.

    I'm all for chipping in when times are tough, but we are already chipping in plenty, it's just getting eaten by the middle man.
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  2. #182
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    I have to disagree. When it comes to how much they benefit, they pay higher taxes on the individual benefits. This is why I say appropriately. Additionally, if we are discussing businesses specifically (rather than wealthy individuals), an increase in taxes actually becomes a regressive (technically flat) penalty for the poor. Businesses will pass on the tax cost to the consumer, raising prices for everyone in equal amounts. I know that I have to compensate for my taxes in my business by raising my prices. This results in lower income families not even being able to afford the home maintenance services I offer.

    If you are talking about increasing taxes on the wealthy, I still disagree, but for different reasons. Again, I point to the difference in types of taxes. We are already in a progressive system. Throwing more money at the government to play around with doesn't equal giving to those in need. If we cut out wasteful spending and managed better, there is already enough money to assist those in need.

    I'm all for chipping in when times are tough, but we are already chipping in plenty, it's just getting eaten by the middle man.
    I'm actually talking about all of those. I think business gets too many breaks, particularly big business, and give little back in return. Yes we have progressive tax, but one that has been cut many times for the wealthy. As i said, they paid more in the past. Going back to the pre Bush tax cuts for example would not be the worse thing ever. As for the government playing around with, I would be more for a debate as to what money should go to and what it shouldn't. As some of these services won't be their without the government, the middle man is needed as a means to reach the end. There is really no other adequate service to take the place. And private isn't all that much better. The money I lost on Walstreet wasn't govenment money. The roofer who failed the fix my roof and stole my broom was government. The folks at Taco Bell who got my order wrong everyday for a year wasn't government. And have you ever tried to correct a home insurance policy issue by talking to someone in India? Three hours and I was ready to shoot someone, maybe myself.

    The point is, what is appropiate is debatable. I don't think you divorce need, and that is no different when we're talking about the country. We are the government. We could do a better job keeping them on task and effective, to be sure, but if small increases are needed, or if going back to a previous rate helps, so be it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #183
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm actually talking about all of those. I think business gets too many breaks, particularly big business, and give little back in return. Yes we have progressive tax, but one that has been cut many times for the wealthy. As i said, they paid more in the past. Going back to the pre Bush tax cuts for example would not be the worse thing ever. As for the government playing around with, I would be more for a debate as to what money should go to and what it shouldn't. As some of these services won't be their without the government, the middle man is needed as a means to reach the end. There is really no other adequate service to take the place. And private isn't all that much better. The money I lost on Walstreet wasn't govenment money. The roofer who failed the fix my roof and stole my broom was government. The folks at Taco Bell who got my order wrong everyday for a year wasn't government. And have you ever tried to correct a home insurance policy issue by talking to someone in India? Three hours and I was ready to shoot someone, maybe myself.

    The point is, what is appropiate is debatable. I don't think you divorce need, and that is no different when we're talking about the country. We are the government. We could do a better job keeping them on task and effective, to be sure, but if small increases are needed, or if going back to a previous rate helps, so be it.
    We are down to a difference of opinion and interpretation. I would love to continue, but I gotta crash so I can get up early for work. Maybe we can pick it up tomorrow.

    Good night!
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  4. #184
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    OK, how come someone has to be "able to afford it" in the first place?


    For the same reason you cannot get blood from a turnip. The 1% ship jobs overseas and wreck the economy through shady financial deals so that we now have 50 million people living in or near poverty, and then have the nerve to suggest they pay more taxes so the rich can get an even bigger tax cut!
    Last edited by Catawba; 06-04-12 at 03:56 AM.
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  5. #185
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Federal sales taxes? Certainly. I wouldn't mind the Fair Tax - which includes a prebate to make the system progressive. But simple, predictable taxes are best.

    However, that is a dodge. The fact remains that a flat rate on income is a flat tax - not a regressive one. You may claim if you wish that some of its' effects are more regressive, but that does not change what it is.
    "With the prebate program in effect, those earning less than $15,000 per year would see their share of the federal tax burden drop from -0.7 percent to -6.3 percent. Of course, if the poorest Americans are paying less under the FairTax plan, then someone else pays more. As it turns out, according to the Treasury Department, “someone else” is everybody earning between $15,000 and $200,000 per year. The chart below compares the share of the federal tax burden for different income groups under the current system and under the FairTax. Those in the highest and the lowest brackets will see their share decrease, while everyone else will see their share of taxes increase."
    FactCheck.org: Unspinning the FairTax
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #186
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    For the same reason you cannot get blood from a turnip. The 1% ship jobs overseas and wreck the economy through shady financial deals so that we now have 50 million people living in or near poverty, and then have the nerve to suggest they pay more taxes so the rich can get an even bigger tax cut!
    OK, so the system is false but that's no reason to fix it with wrong decisions (different prices for different classes). It is sad to what mess socialism (big government) leads.

  7. #187
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    ANYONE CAN DO IT IF THEY PUT THEIR MIND TO IT.
    This is the problem right here. Yes, anyone can do it. Not everyone can do it. Yes, maybe the janitor will end up owning the janitorial company, and maybe the burger flipper will end up being the store manager someday. But that doesn't reduce the need for janitors and burger flippers. There are always going to be some doing the menial unskilled labor in this country, and unless we decide to pay those people more, those people are always going to be relatively poor.
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  8. #188
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    Oh great, now you want to screw me over by having a luxury tax on SUVs and other items you deem as too expensive for you.
    No, I'm not saying I want to screw you over by having a luxury tax. I'm simply pointing out that a sales tax could be made progressive as easily as an income tax could, and is therefore not inherently a more beneficial system to those that want flat taxation.
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  9. #189
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    This is the problem right here. Yes, anyone can do it. Not everyone can do it. Yes, maybe the janitor will end up owning the janitorial company, and maybe the burger flipper will end up being the store manager someday. But that doesn't reduce the need for janitors and burger flippers. There are always going to be some doing the menial unskilled labor in this country, and unless we decide to pay those people more, those people are always going to be relatively poor.
    Sounds more like an incentive to move up in the world, to me. Plus, janitorial work can actually pay pretty well. I made more as a janitor, than I did as a Soldier.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  10. #190
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "With the prebate program in effect, those earning less than $15,000 per year would see their share of the federal tax burden drop from -0.7 percent to -6.3 percent. Of course, if the poorest Americans are paying less under the FairTax plan, then someone else pays more. As it turns out, according to the Treasury Department, “someone else” is everybody earning between $15,000 and $200,000 per year. The chart below compares the share of the federal tax burden for different income groups under the current system and under the FairTax. Those in the highest and the lowest brackets will see their share decrease, while everyone else will see their share of taxes increase."
    FactCheck.org: Unspinning the FairTax
    the top one percent should not be paying more than 22% of the income tax if they receive 22% of the income.

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