View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #141
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    They do not comprise a majority of the one percent. If you look at how their finances are structured you will find LLCs, Partnerships, and in my case C corps. ect.. All those vehicles allow you and they to SPEND the money BEFORE taxation. They are taxed only on profit. If they even have a profit. Thats my point. There are VERY few true employees in the one percent. They generally have CONTROL of how much tax they are going to pay, by how they structure their investment vehicles and businesses. If you look at doctors accountants ect. you find most in partnerships and or llc's. They are taxed in all of these vehicles on NET profit not the GROSS. Where as an employee the government gets first crack. The key is control or the lack thereoff.
    Last edited by PirateMk1; 06-03-12 at 08:49 PM.
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you have never made a good argument as to why a progressive tax is appropriate. it is based on your values not any evidence.
    Of course I have. I've made dozens. How about this, see if you can list off just three of them so I know that even if you aren't understanding, at least you're listening.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    That is the counter argument. a progressive tax system caters to politicians to promise the many more and more services without the many having to pay more taxes (and thus less likely to vote vote the big spenders). That is the entire reason behind the progressive taxes
    Oops, you mistakenly assumed the tax system was progressive again didn't you. Aww shucks! And just a few posts after the most recent time that you admitted it wasn't. What do you think you can do better next time to avoid making that exact same embarrassing mistake the 2,538th time?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  3. #143
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    1) every consumption tax plan I have seen has some exemptions which I would support
    but I don't really find it compelling to say that its wrong for the poor to pay more taxes given they demand more government. the rich still pay more actual tax dollars.

    2) I completely and totally reject the from each according to their ability. UNDER any tax plan I have seen, the rich still pay more, but I oppose higher rates for the reason I explained above

  4. #144
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    In terms of fair share by percentage (without the tax cheats so many exploit) they pay more than their fair share. I feel we would be far better off with a flat tax rate and no deductions. Many of the wealthy would end up paying far more in taxes than they currently do, but would also pay the same percentage as anyone else, which is the ultimate fair in my book. IMO, the progressive tax system is one of the worst political ideas ever, and the exploitation of it, especially by the wealthy due to the infinite amount of deductions is seriously counterproductive.

  5. #145
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Of course I have. I've made dozens. How about this, see if you can list off just three of them so I know that even if you aren't understanding, at least you're listening.



    Oops, you mistakenly assumed the tax system was progressive again didn't you. Aww shucks! And just a few posts after the most recent time that you admitted it wasn't. What do you think you can do better next time to avoid making that exact same embarrassing mistake the 2,538th time?

    If you are so much wiser than us who oppose progressive tax schemes why is it that people like you are so much more dependent on the government than people like me? In my view, being intelligent and well educated should make one more independent. So tell me teamosil, what exactly do you do for a living? Your total tax rate bit is a bit dishonest as has been proven. If someone pays state taxes with money taken from others and given to them by the government, its rather mendacious to claim that those people are actually paying taxes

  6. #146
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by 00timh View Post
    In terms of fair share by percentage (without the tax cheats so many exploit) they pay more than their fair share. I feel we would be far better off with a flat tax rate and no deductions. Many of the wealthy would end up paying far more in taxes than they currently do, but would also pay the same percentage as anyone else, which is the ultimate fair in my book. IMO, the progressive tax system is one of the worst political ideas ever, and the exploitation of it, especially by the wealthy due to the infinite amount of deductions is seriously counterproductive.

    However, even with all the deductions loopholes etc the top one percent (most of us don't have the sort of control that bill gates, george soros or warren buffett has to manipulate our income as they do) still pays almost 40% of the income tax

    now if the top one percent-which makes 22% of the income-was paying less than 22% of the income taxes, all this talk of loopholes and deductions might have some actual merit

  7. #147
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    1) every consumption tax plan I have seen has some exemptions which I would support
    but I don't really find it compelling to say that its wrong for the poor to pay more taxes given they demand more government. the rich still pay more actual tax dollars.
    I don't really find it compelling to argue that the rich pay more actual tax dollars. $100,000 of tax is less of a burden to a man who makes $1,000,000 a year than $5,000 is to a man who makes $25,000 a year.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    2) I completely and totally reject the from each according to their ability. UNDER any tax plan I have seen, the rich still pay more, but I oppose higher rates for the reason I explained above
    You can reject it all you want, and it won't change a thing. You can't take money from people that don't have any to take.

    Or do you really think that a family of four living on $25,000 a year can afford to pay 20% of that in taxes, just the same as someone making half a million a year?

    You said you support a consumption tax with some deductions. What is so different between that and a flat percentage income tax with a single cost of living deduction?
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  8. #148
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    I find it compelling that someone paying 100K a year in taxes is getting far less value for his tax payments than someone paying 1000 dollars a year in the same income taxes. I find it the attitude that ability to pay (which is so loaded a term that it is worthless) is the only factor that should be taken into account is pernicious because those who claim they don't have much ability to pay will demand more and more from the government while arguing others should pay the bill.

    its giving the irresponsible credit cards and sending the bills to others
    a consumption tax requires far less government involvement and control


    if someone making 25K a year and still decides to have two kids, maybe they will be less likely to want a government that requires them to pay 20% of their income in taxes than the current system does where they can vote for big spenders who want people like me to pay more and more

  9. #149
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I don't really find it compelling to argue that the rich pay more actual tax dollars. $100,000 of tax is less of a burden to a man who makes $1,000,000 a year than $5,000 is to a man who makes $25,000 a year.



    You can reject it all you want, and it won't change a thing. You can't take money from people that don't have any to take.

    Or do you really think that a family of four living on $25,000 a year can afford to pay 20% of that in taxes, just the same as someone making half a million a year?

    You said you support a consumption tax with some deductions. What is so different between that and a flat percentage income tax with a single cost of living deduction?
    Maybe it will motivate them to make some money and accumulate some wealth.
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  10. #150
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If you are so much wiser than us who oppose progressive tax schemes why is it that people like you are so much more dependent on the government than people like me? In my view, being intelligent and well educated should make one more independent. So tell me teamosil, what exactly do you do for a living?
    More dependent on the government? What are you talking about kiddo? You're just babbling. You lose every single point and then just ramble off in another direction babbling random sentences. It's pathetic. Aren't you ashamed by how badly you lose every debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Your total tax rate bit is a bit dishonest as has been proven. If someone pays state taxes with money taken from others and given to them by the government, its rather mendacious to claim that those people are actually paying taxes
    Kiddo, you seem to think that people in poverty just get all their money from the government, but obviously you understand that isn't true, right? Why do you keep posting things that you know are false? What is the matter with your brain?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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