View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #121
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    TD. This is so far beyond idiotic that I don't even know what to say. You're just openly admitting that you're intentionally only looking at progressive taxes and then declaring that the system is progressive... That's like saying "all marbles are blue" and ignoring the green marbles and then blurting out that it is only fair to look at the blue marbles. You need to get your act together. Why is this so much harder for you than it is for everybody else. Most people don't seem to have these problems with such basic concepts.
    \you labor under the delusion that the tax rate when every tax is combined -state and federal local and municipal should be strictly progressive. that is the only way you can utter such idiocy.

  2. #122
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Do any of you actually know how the Tax code works? I wonder because the rich are NOT as a general rule EMPLOYED. Therefor they are going to be taxed diffrently from those who are.
    teamosil believes that the rich should always pay a higher rate no matter what. so that attitude transcends all arguments as to why investment income-which is subject to more risk etc than salary income should be taxed at different rates. They can never explain why the rich should be subject to a progressive rate on all taxes other than their assumption the rich should be taxed more. There is no rational reason for it, its based on class envy

  3. #123
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, that would mena poorer people pay more, carry more of the burden.
    why not-maybe if that happened they wouldn't be so quick to demand more government spending

  4. #124
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I diasgree with having DIFFERENT individual "non-standard" deductions. It is your choice whether you have children, rent vs. buying home, pay cash vs. incurring credit interest, live in a high tax state or any other personal financial decision you make. Taxation is for revenue generation, not for "social engineering" or "social justice" causes. If you want to give away taxpayer money, then do it AFTER tax collection, directly by a gov't check that all may easily see the cost of, not through a sneaky complex quagmire of tax laws, so that its true cost may never be made known.
    I'm not talking about social engineering or anything like that. I simply think it's important that no one be forced to choose between paying their taxes and feeding their kids. Which is why I would base the cost of living deduction on family size. If you were going to have a single deduction with no factors involved for family size or where someone lived, it would have to be fairly high to cover people in high cost of living areas with a lot of kids.
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  5. #125
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Those are all transactions that trigger a tax. Exchanging something for another, in the form of a contract. Trade. Labor for money, and money for goods and services. Gifts and inheritance are not examples of this.
    How is a gift or an inheritance not a transaction. It's still money or goods changing hands. Why should money I worked hard to earn, adding some benefit to society, be taxed, while money I did absolutely nothing to earn, adding no benefit to society, be tax free.
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  6. #126
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    How is a gift or an inheritance not a transaction. It's still money or goods changing hands. Why should money I worked hard to earn, adding some benefit to society, be taxed, while money I did absolutely nothing to earn, adding no benefit to society, be tax free.
    why should the government get two cracks at money when there was no exchange in value. Gifts should never be taxed, they are not income and they are not an exchange for value.

    the people who whine about inheritances are generally those who are mad they didn't get one

    why do you spend so much time justifying the government taking yet more money from other people

    do you honestly believe that the government actually needs more money?

    and the only people raped by the inheritance taxes are those who are the top bracket payers anyway. the vast majority of people don't pay it-why should only a small group get hit with this-the group that pays more taxes than most of the rest of the country combined?

    inheritance, estate, or death taxes are nothing more than a surcharge on the top tax payers

  7. #127
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    You miss some key distinctions. What you spend is gone (consumed), yes it may be recirculated, but you have neither interest in, nor control over, how. What you invest is still yours (hard earned income), but you have placed it at risk, to be used by others with a CHANCE that you will benefit, yet your have no such guarantee it will benefit you, like eating that hot dog or driving that car, that you could have done instead. Investment helps us ALL, not just the guy taking the risk, as it grows the economy, creates jobs and thus should be encouraged, over simple personal consumption. Offering a reward for successful private investment, by taxing that "income" at a lower rate, is a common good, especially considering that, if money is lost, then you get no tax break for that "bad" investment.
    That's like saying that gambling winnings shouldn't be taxed because there was risk involved. You choose to invest, you choose to accept the risk. No one is forced to do it. It's not such an issue when you have someone with a normal job who has a 401k or some investments on the side. It comes in when you have people making millions of dollars doing nothing but investing, and paying very little taxes on it. And while I agree that investing is good for the country as a whole, having a lower tax rate on investment income than earned income is basically saying that investing is more beneficial to the country than the people that actually perform labor at the companies that others are investing in. And that's clearly not true. A company could have all the money in the world invested in it, but without any employees to do the actual work, it's completely worthless to the country as a whole.

    And I do think it's a problem that investment losses can't be counted as negative income. They absolutely should be able to.
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  8. #128
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    \you labor under the delusion that the tax rate when every tax is combined -state and federal local and municipal should be strictly progressive. that is the only way you can utter such idiocy.
    TD, why would I care about the opinion of somebody like you as to whether taxation should be progressive or regressive? Obviously your views on stuff like that are absurd. But the fact remains, you are being dishonest when you continually try to portray it as though we have a steeply progressive system. It is, as you well know. mildly progressive, going from 20% to 31% as you get higher in income amongst people who work, and then steeply regressive above that. I don't care what you think about that situation, just quit lying about the facts.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  9. #129
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    TD, why would I care about the opinion of somebody like you as to whether taxation should be progressive or regressive? Obviously your views on stuff like that are absurd. But the fact remains, you are being dishonest when you continually try to portray it as though we have a steeply progressive system. It is, as you well know. mildly progressive, going from 20% to 31% as you get higher in income amongst people who work, and then steeply regressive above that. I don't care what you think about that situation, just quit lying about the facts.
    I love the sanctimonious attitude that the far left often spews on topics like this

    you assume that a progressive system is the only one that is proper and dismiss as benighted, anyone who doesn't buy into your parasitic schemes. You are being dishonest when you lump stuff like sales tax, gasoline tax, FICA and other taxes to create an OVERALL tax rate and then claim it is not progressive enough

    the only taxes that should be viewed and evaluated for the progressive rate are those that were intended to be progressive. YOu can not honestly whine the the taxes on the rich are not progressive enough when many of the taxes you consider were never intended to be progressive.

    And why should someone who is wealthy pay a higher percentage than someone who is not?

  10. #130
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the only taxes that should be viewed and evaluated for the progressive rate are those that were intended to be progressive.
    WTF is the matter with you? You just said it again barely an hour after I called you out for saying exactly that same thing. Again, that makes zero sense. Obviously. Every progressive tax is progressive. You can't tell any more about our society's tax system by just looking at progressive taxes than you can tell what color the marbles are in a jar by only looking at the blue ones. What you're saying is just breathtakingly stupid. I already pointed that out very clearly. You need to engage your brain man. Stop just repeating yourself and pretending nobody is responding to what you're saying. If you can't defend something, you need to drop it. Do you understand?
    Last edited by teamosil; 06-03-12 at 08:15 PM.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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