View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #111
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Again you make a circular argument. I assume you want the the gov't to tax "rich" citizen A and give it to poor citizen B since A was not going to spend it and are quite sure that B will to "get things going". Or perhaps you more prefer the Obama borrow and spend approach, where you borrow and give it to B, so that B will spend that money and "get things going". But eventually you must tax A anyway just to pay back the debt, from that which you borrowed and gave to B. My approach would be to let A keep more after tax income and perhaps A will then invest more here, instead of in China. ;-)
    It doesn't matter if A invests in China or the US, if they live here, they pay taxes here on investment income.

    I'm not arguing anything about giving anybody money. I am arguing that we should tax all kinds of income according to the same brackets. The myth that investment income is somehow inherently more crucial than consumer spending is false, so that argument in favor of giving preferential tax treatment to investors fails.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  2. #112
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Do any of you actually know how the Tax code works? I wonder because the rich are NOT as a general rule EMPLOYED. Therefor they are going to be taxed diffrently from those who are.
    Last edited by PirateMk1; 06-03-12 at 04:22 PM. Reason: I can.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Do any of you actually know how the Tax code works? I wonder because the rich are NOT as a general rule EMPLOYED. Therefor they are going to be taxed diffrently from those who are.
    Not sure how you think that as relevant. Can you explain your position. Of course, yes, we realize that the rich mostly get their income from capital gains and investment income, and that because the rich have so much influence over out political system, those sources of income are taxed at lower rates. That's what we think is unfair.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  4. #114
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Fairness is when everyone pays the same amount, not the same %, the same amount.
    No, that would mena poorer people pay more, carry more of the burden.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #115
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    It doesn't matter if A invests in China or the US, if they live here, they pay taxes here on investment income.

    I'm not arguing anything about giving anybody money. I am arguing that we should tax all kinds of income according to the same brackets. The myth that investment income is somehow inherently more crucial than consumer spending is false, so that argument in favor of giving preferential tax treatment to investors fails.
    But you must also agree that the more a PERSON has to spend the more that they will likely spend. Anything taken by the gov't they obviously can not spend. ;-)
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #116
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    But you must also agree that the more a PERSON has to spend the more that they will likely spend. Anything taken by the gov't they obviously can not spend. ;-)
    Right, that's the whole point. Shift the tax structure to favor the rich and disfavor the middle class, you get less spending more investment because the middle class spends a higher percentage of their income where the rich invest a higher percentage. Shift the tax structure to favor the rich and disfavor the middle class, you get more investment, less spending. Right now we have it cranked all the way over to favor the rich and we have tons of investment, not enough spending.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Not sure how you think that as relevant. Can you explain your position. Of course, yes, we realize that the rich mostly get their income from capital gains and investment income, and that because the rich have so much influence over out political system, those sources of income are taxed at lower rates. That's what we think is unfair.
    Its relevent because the rate is pretty much meaningless. Employed people are taxed BEFORE they spend their money. Wealthy people are taxed AFTER they spend their money. We could have the exact same tax rate and make the exact same money, and I would come out on top of you simply because I OWN a business and you are EMPLOYED. Thats how the wealthy KEEP their money. If you want more control over how much tax you pay, dont be employed. Employed people have little control over their taxes. The wealthy CONTROL what they pay out in taxes.

    By the way there is a diffrence between weathy and rich. Wealth is the accumulation of riches. Far better to be wealthy than rich.

    Life is unfair. It is a cast iron bitch who will smack you down at every opportunity. The real question is are you gona take it lying down, or raise your middle finger to her, call her the she bitch is, and do something about it?
    Last edited by PirateMk1; 06-03-12 at 05:20 PM. Reason: I can.
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  8. #118
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Right, that's the whole point. Shift the tax structure to favor the rich and disfavor the middle class, you get less spending more investment because the middle class spends a higher percentage of their income where the rich invest a higher percentage. Shift the tax structure to favor the rich and disfavor the middle class, you get more investment, less spending. Right now we have it cranked all the way over to favor the rich and we have tons of investment, not enough spending.
    I love how you leave the poor out of taxation altogther, they get representation without taxation, helping to push your tax the rich plan even more. Perhaps the first thing we need to do is get the gov't limitted to spending only what they dare ask for in taxes, no more borrow and print money "budgets". Now the federal gov't simply borrows and promises to either raise taxes or cut spending, yet the gov't neither raises taxes nor cuts spending, they just raise their own credit limit; rinse and repeat. ;-)
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-03-12 at 05:25 PM.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #119
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I love how you leave the poor out of taxation altogther, they get representation without taxation, helping to push your tax the rich plan even more. Perhaps the first thing we need to do is get the gov't limitted to spending only what they dare ask for in taxes, no more borrow and print money "budgets". Now the federal gov't simply borrows and promises to either raise taxes or cut spending, yet the gov't neither raises taxes nor cuts spending, they just raise their own credit limit; rinse and repeat. ;-)
    People living below the poverty line currently pay an average of 16% in taxes. Slightly more than the super rich do.

    The notion that spending levels should be determined by tax revenues instead of the other way round is not something I agree with. The amount of spending we should be doing varies constantly. We should take every opportunity that is better suited to the public sector than the private sector where the benefits outweigh the costs. That could be $1 trillion at one point in history and $10 trillion at another point. If somebody figured out a way tomorrow where by spending $5 trillion we could boost our GDP by $10 trillion, the obvious thing to do would be to increase spending and taxes both by $5 trillion, thus generating a $5 trillion windfall for the American people. I do agree that we should balance our budget, and some of that should be through spending cuts, particularly in the military. But, we shouldn't view it like "we're willing to pay X, so live within that amount". That isn't a sensible strategy.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  10. #120
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    the options on this thread are deceptive because I don't believe the rich pay their fair share-they pay far far more while the lefties will claim they don't pay enough

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