View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #1031
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You assume there are opportunities to be had.
    Where there are large companies in a relatively free market, there are opportunities.
    I don't think you understand that it's not opportunities, it's choice.

    We provide free high school education for example, and completing high school is a significant statistical indicator of getting out of poverty. Great right?

    Yet roughly 23% don't graduate. They refuse the opportunity. Should we blame Facebook for that? Maybe some Wall Street investment banker? What is clear is that you cannot blame lack of opportunity.

  2. #1032
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Where there are large companies in a relatively free market, there are opportunities.
    I don't think you understand that it's not opportunities, it's choice.

    We provide free high school education for example, and completing high school is a significant statistical indicator of getting out of poverty. Great right?

    Yet roughly 23% don't graduate. They refuse the opportunity. Should we blame Facebook for that? Maybe some Wall Street investment banker? What is clear is that you cannot blame lack of opportunity.
    There are Ph.D's that are unemployed from a lack of jobs in the market.

    Three million unemployed and one million jobs still leaves two million unemployed. It doesn't take a high school diploma for that kind of arithmetic.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-26-12 at 05:57 PM.
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  3. #1033
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    When was the last time you had to skip a meal?

    I've stood in the temp jobs line and I've missed meals. Don't feed me some crap you read on a website.


    Not deer season here - not until fall.
    Tags required here - limit varies by year. ((If there are no tags what stops you from taking 20-30 deer?))

    You can only eat off it that long if you can preserve it that long.


    And where did you get the gun? The bow? Did you steal them?
    Who taught you to hunt? To Shoot?
    Are you going to hump those deer back on foot? If not, did you steal a car?


    The obvious conclusion here is that you're not poor and have apparently never been poor.
    And/or you're a criminal.
    Not a criminal. Not greedy either. Not rich, not poor. Never missed a meal- because I know how to earn money. I have been unemployed. I never missed a mortgage payment. Cut grass, did odd jobs- then temp to perm when the opportunity arose. Didn't pay me much so started my own business. Now I own two. No one ever gave me a dime, and I never took anything from anyone.

    There is opportunity. Again, I didn't read it on a website. If you are unemployed and you are sitting around all day waiting on the job market to improve, you are missing opportunties.

  4. #1034
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I stand corrected - greed causes death and suffering.


    You assume there are opportunities to be had. If there are a million jobs but three million out of work then two million people will be without jobs. The same works for fans. If there are 1000 fans and 3000 old people that need them then 2000 old people will not get fans.
    No, it doesn't cause death and suffering. If greed caused all these problems now, the same would have been true prior to the 2008 financial crisis. If someone is wealthy, it does not take away from someone who has less, no matter what economic class that individual is in.
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    So you didn't answer the high school opportunity question? Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    There are Ph.D's that are unemployed from a lack of jobs in the market.
    Violin?

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    In order to both address our deficit and make the tax system more fair. As Reagan said, so the bus driver is not paying a higher tax rate than millionaires.
    You could tax the wealthy at 100%, and it would hardly make a dent in the deficit. 'Fair' is a subjective term, I find it fair when we all pay the same and all receive the same for what we pay.
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    There are Ph.D's that are unemployed from a lack of jobs in the market.

    Three million unemployed and one million jobs still leaves two million unemployed. It doesn't take a high school diploma for that kind of arithmetic.
    What type of PhD's?

    There are also thousands of agricultural jobs paying well above minimum wage that these poor souls are unwilling to fill. It doesn't take a high school diploma to see we should not be paying people unemployment for not taking available jobs.
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  8. #1038
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Its the economy stupid!!!


    The 1 Percent’s Problem

    "Why won’t America’s 1 percent—such as the six Walmart heirs, whose wealth equals that of the entire bottom 30 percent—be a bit more . . . selfish? As the widening financial divide cripples the U.S. economy, even those at the top will pay a steep price."

    "Let’s start by laying down the baseline premise: inequality in America has been widening for dec*ades. We’re all aware of the fact. Yes, there are some on the right who deny this reality, but serious analysts across the political spectrum take it for granted. I won’t run through all the evidence here, except to say that the gap between the 1 percent and the 99 percent is vast when looked at in terms of annual income, and even vaster when looked at in terms of wealth—that is, in terms of accumulated capital and other assets. Consider the Walton family: the six heirs to the Walmart empire possess a combined wealth of some $90 billion, which is equivalent to the wealth of the entire bottom 30 percent of U.S. society. (Many at the bottom have zero or negative net worth, especially after the housing debacle.) Warren Buffett put the matter correctly when he said, “There’s been class warfare going on for the last 20 years and my class has won.”

    "The relationship is straightforward and ironclad: as more money becomes concentrated at the top, aggregate demand goes into a decline. Unless something else happens by way of intervention, total demand in the economy will be less than what the economy is capable of supplying—and that means that there will be growing unemployment, which will dampen demand even further. In the 1990s that “something else” was the tech bubble. In the first dec*ade of the 21st century, it was the housing bubble. Today, the only recourse, amid deep recession, is government spending—which is exactly what those at the top are now hoping to curb."

    "So, the advice I’d give to the 1 percent today is: Harden your hearts. When invited to consider proposals to reduce inequality—by raising taxes and investing in education, public works, health care, and science—put any latent notions of altruism aside and reduce the idea to one of unadulterated self-interest. Don’t embrace it because it helps other people. Just do it for yourself."

    From The Price of Inequality: Joseph Stiglitz on the 1 Percent Problem | Politics | Vanity Fair
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  9. #1039
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its the economy stupid!!!


    The 1 Percent’s Problem

    "Why won’t America’s 1 percent—such as the six Walmart heirs, whose wealth equals that of the entire bottom 30 percent—be a bit more . . . selfish? As the widening financial divide cripples the U.S. economy, even those at the top will pay a steep price."

    "Let’s start by laying down the baseline premise: inequality in America has been widening for dec*ades. We’re all aware of the fact. Yes, there are some on the right who deny this reality, but serious analysts across the political spectrum take it for granted. I won’t run through all the evidence here, except to say that the gap between the 1 percent and the 99 percent is vast when looked at in terms of annual income, and even vaster when looked at in terms of wealth—that is, in terms of accumulated capital and other assets. Consider the Walton family: the six heirs to the Walmart empire possess a combined wealth of some $90 billion, which is equivalent to the wealth of the entire bottom 30 percent of U.S. society. (Many at the bottom have zero or negative net worth, especially after the housing debacle.) Warren Buffett put the matter correctly when he said, “There’s been class warfare going on for the last 20 years and my class has won.”

    "The relationship is straightforward and ironclad: as more money becomes concentrated at the top, aggregate demand goes into a decline. Unless something else happens by way of intervention, total demand in the economy will be less than what the economy is capable of supplying—and that means that there will be growing unemployment, which will dampen demand even further. In the 1990s that “something else” was the tech bubble. In the first dec*ade of the 21st century, it was the housing bubble. Today, the only recourse, amid deep recession, is government spending—which is exactly what those at the top are now hoping to curb."

    "So, the advice I’d give to the 1 percent today is: Harden your hearts. When invited to consider proposals to reduce inequality—by raising taxes and investing in education, public works, health care, and science—put any latent notions of altruism aside and reduce the idea to one of unadulterated self-interest. Don’t embrace it because it helps other people. Just do it for yourself."

    From The Price of Inequality: Joseph Stiglitz on the 1 Percent Problem | Politics | Vanity Fair
    another rant about the rich that thinks raising taxes actually ends inequality or is charity.

  10. #1040
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    another rant about the rich that thinks raising taxes actually ends inequality or is charity.
    When you say things like you just did, did it ever occur to you to actually read what you are responding to and speak to the points made in the post instead of merely giving us Turtle talking Point #3 or #7 or whatever?

    It might then approach something that we could call actual debate for once.
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