View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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    82 45.30%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #1021
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Still posting under the delusion that the value of you and yours is the same as the value of me and mine?


    It's odd how the rich always seem the poorest come April 15th.
    Just how much is the GOVERNMENT'S "fair" share of ANY citizens income? Why is this NOT the same PERCENTAGE, after a reasonable "standard" deduction, for all citizens. We see ONE vote, per citizen, as "fair" regardless of whether any taxation is paid. The income tax code should have only TWO numbers, a TRUELY "standard" dedcution of perhaps $20K (for each individual return) and a SINGLE taxation rate of ALL income (over that amount) at say 20%; the income tax would then be FAIR, flat and progressive - all at the same time. It would also prevent the DC morons from constantly tinkering with it, at the behest of lobbyists, in exchange for mountains of campaign cash.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Without demand supply is useless. You can't make money from 1000 widgets if no one wants or can afford a widget.
    Agreed. This would cause a reduction in the price of widgets. The widgets will still sell, but their value is diminished due to decreased demand for the widgets- assuming the widgets are a good product that people WANT or NEED.

    It's starting to get hot in many places across the country right now. Just watch the news papers and lets see how many old people die from heat stroke because they lack a fan and/or the electricity to run it. They die by the hundreds every year. In winter they freeze to death. People usually die from disease brought on by malnutrition instead of dying from actual starvation. There's no denying the deaths in this country from greed.


    If you mean there are plenty of jobs ("game to kill"), that's pure horsecrap. Take your lies elsewhere.
    Firstly, lets assume that an elderly person did die from heatstroke and that the did not own a fan. How can you claim this results from greed? You made no effort to support your case. This is a logical jump that can not be made. A person died, therefore it is the fault of a particular segment of society. Nope. You lost this one buddy.

    Additionally, if I wasn't speaking specifically in terms of jobs. I was speaking in terms of food- and income. As you stated, humans are essentially animals and would fight for their own survival. If so many people are hungry, how is it that Georgia as an overpopulation of white tailed deer? If you starve to death it is because you are sitting around waiting on someone to bring food to you. You want (or potentially need) to be supported by others. That doesn't obligate "others" to provide that support.

    If I lost my job tomorrow, I could still find ways to generate income. I wouldn't be sitting on my ass waiting for the government to fix my life.

    According to you guys everything has an owner and since you called them your apples I assumed you owned the tree. If it's your tree then they're your apples and you'd call it theft whether I took the apples from the tree or from your hoard.

    Or are you advocating that society own the means of production?
    I'm certainly not advocating that. According to YOU GUYS, the only apples that exist are the ones owned by other people. There are more apples, and more apple trees. People have their blinders on and subscribe to this BS defeatist rhetoric. Go get your own tree. There are plenty of them out there. If you can't find a corporate job, find other ways to provide a service that others need or want. This is America. Land of opportunity. If you are sitting here telling me there is no opportunity, or that the opportunity is limited to the rich, you can take your "lies" elsewhere.

    This is what you call upward mobility?!?!?
    Definition of UPWARD MOBILITY



    : the capacity or facility for rising to a higher social or economic position

    Point made.

  3. #1023
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    Agreed. This would cause a reduction in the price of widgets. The widgets will still sell, but their value is diminished due to decreased demand for the widgets- assuming the widgets are a good product that people WANT or NEED.
    Want and need aren't enough - sorry. Most people that drive want a better car but there's a good reason they don't have one. Again, it's demand (aka consuming spending) that drives sales, not capital.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    Firstly, lets assume that an elderly person did die from heatstroke and that the did not own a fan. How can you claim this results from greed? You made no effort to support your case. This is a logical jump that can not be made. A person died, therefore it is the fault of a particular segment of society. Nope. You lost this one buddy.
    It doesn't take a doctor to count dead bodies or an economist to conclude heat stroke victims die from a lack of money to provide fans and/or electrical power. If you need those easily visible lines drawn then we may as well back up and start asking for dictionary definitions beginning with 'a', then moving on to two letters words. Or maybe you think every dime in America is so tied up with other life-saving tasks that none can be spared for a fan for Mrs. Mertz?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    Additionally, if I wasn't speaking specifically in terms of jobs. I was speaking in terms of food- and income. As you stated, humans are essentially animals and would fight for their own survival. If so many people are hungry, how is it that Georgia as an overpopulation of white tailed deer? If you starve to death it is because you are sitting around waiting on someone to bring food to you. You want (or potentially need) to be supported by others. That doesn't obligate "others" to provide that support.

    If I lost my job tomorrow, I could still find ways to generate income. I wouldn't be sitting on my ass waiting for the government to fix my life.

    I'm certainly not advocating that. According to YOU GUYS, the only apples that exist are the ones owned by other people. There are more apples, and more apple trees. People have their blinders on and subscribe to this BS defeatist rhetoric. Go get your own tree. There are plenty of them out there. If you can't find a corporate job, find other ways to provide a service that others need or want. This is America. Land of opportunity. If you are sitting here telling me there is no opportunity, or that the opportunity is limited to the rich, you can take your "lies" elsewhere.
    Everything is owned by someone. If you don't own it or you don't pay for it in some way then you're stealing
    - aka theft.
    - Shooting deer out of season is illegal and so is shooting them without a tag. It's called pouching.
    - You could always resort to prostitution. That's illegal everywhere but Nevada.
    You seem to be suggesting criminal activity of all kinds. How interesting.

    Now if you just do a tiny bit of thinking you will understand the REAL issues here instead of what some right-wingnut website feeds you.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    Definition of UPWARD MOBILITY
    : the capacity or facility for rising to a higher social or economic position
    Point made.
    "Rising to a higher social or economic position" doesn't mean making $5k more this year than last year.
    Thank you for your acknowledgement of my point.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-26-12 at 04:22 PM.
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  4. #1024
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Want and need aren't enough - sorry. Most people that drive want a better car but there's a good reason they don't have one. Again, it's demand that drives sales, not capital.
    If no one wants or needs the product, it doesn't matter how much money they have- because they aren't going to buy it. Without supply, demand can not be met. As I said, it is a balance between supply and demand. I tried to get a new iphone when they first came out. There was a very long line and they ran out of iphones. There was plenty of demand, but no supply. Demand does not drive sales if there is no supply.

    It doesn't take a doctor to count dead bodies or an economist to conclude heat stroke victims die from a lack of money to provide fans and/or electrical power. If you need those easily visible lines drawn then we may as well back up and start asking for dictionary definitions beginning with 'a', then moving on to two letters words. Or maybe you think every dime in America is so tied up with other life-saving tasks that none can be spared for a fan for Mrs. Mertz?
    You still have not shown that the greed of others led that person to be so impoverished that they died from lack of a fan. You have not proved it because you can not prove it because it is not true. It is rhetoric, and you've bought into it hook line and sinker. Who is greedy? And how did that person cause the other person to be poor?

    Everything is owned by someone. So if you don't own it and you don't pay for it in some way then you're stealing it
    - aka theft.
    - Shooting deer out of season is illegal and so is shooting them without a tag. It's called pouching.
    - You could always resort to prostitution but that's illegal everywhere but Nevada.
    You seem to be suggesting criminal activity of all kinds. How interesting.
    Some way to pay for it.... don't you think there are ways for the unemployed to earn money? Temp jobs- maybe they have to downgrade and work at mcdonalds. Maybe the dog sit for neighbors or cut grass... quit making excuses. The bottom line is that because you don't have money doesn't mean you CANT have it. It is there.

    BTW it is deer season. No tags required in most states. You can kill up to 12 per season in georgia. Enough to eat off of for a whole year. And if you hunt with a bow, you can take another 12.

    I'm not suggesting illegal activity. I'm suggesting work. Hustle. Feed your family.

    "Rising to a higher social or economic position" doesn't mean making $5k more this year than last year.
    I didn't say that was the case. I started with nothing and now I have something. That is upward mobility.
    Last edited by kamikaze483; 06-26-12 at 04:28 PM.

  5. #1025
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    If no one wants or needs the product, it doesn't matter how much money they have- because they aren't going to buy it. Without supply, demand can not be met. As I said, it is a balance between supply and demand. I tried to get a new iphone when they first came out. There was a very long line and they ran out of iphones. There was plenty of demand, but no supply. Demand does not drive sales if there is no supply.
    But the company doesn't loose money by not building more product. Apple didn't loose money because of the shortage of iPhones. But if Apple had build all those iPhones and no one bought them it would have lost a ton of money.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-26-12 at 04:49 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    You still have not shown that the greed of others led that person to be so impoverished that they died from lack of a fan. You have not proved it because you can not prove it because it is not true. It is rhetoric, and you've bought into it hook line and sinker. Who is greedy? And how did that person cause the other person to be poor?
    I didn't say anyone "caused" another to be poor - but greed keeps people poor. I'm sure you believe Mrs. Mertz should die and decrease the surplus population.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    I didn't say that was the case. I started with nothing and now I have something. That is upward mobility.
    Clueless to the end.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #1028
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I didn't say anyone "caused" another to be poor - but greed keeps people poor. I'm sure you believe Mrs. Mertz should die and decrease the surplus population.
    Greed doesn't keep people poor. Lack of taking advantage of opportunities does. If nobody in the country was wealthy, and we had two classes: middle class and poor, the poor wouldn't be any better off.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    Some way to pay for it.... don't you think there are ways for the unemployed to earn money? Temp jobs- maybe they have to downgrade and work at mcdonalds. Maybe the dog sit for neighbors or cut grass... quit making excuses. The bottom line is that because you don't have money doesn't mean you CANT have it. It is there.
    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    I'm not suggesting illegal activity. I'm suggesting work. Hustle. Feed your family.
    When was the last time you had to skip a meal?

    I've stood in the temp jobs line and I've missed meals. Don't feed me some crap you read on a website.


    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    BTW it is deer season. No tags required in most states. You can kill up to 12 per season in georgia. Enough to eat off of for a whole year. And if you hunt with a bow, you can take another 12.
    Not deer season here - not until fall.
    Tags required here - limit varies by year. ((If there are no tags what stops you from taking 20-30 deer?))

    You can only eat off it that long if you can preserve it that long.


    And where did you get the gun? The bow? Did you steal them?
    Who taught you to hunt? To Shoot?
    Are you going to hump those deer back on foot? If not, did you steal a car?


    The obvious conclusion here is that you're not poor and have apparently never been poor.
    And/or you're a criminal.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-26-12 at 05:10 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Greed doesn't keep people poor. Lack of taking advantage of opportunities does. If nobody in the country was wealthy, and we had two classes: middle class and poor, the poor wouldn't be any better off.
    I stand corrected - greed causes death and suffering.


    You assume there are opportunities to be had. If there are a million jobs but three million out of work then two million people will be without jobs. The same works for fans. If there are 1000 fans and 3000 old people that need them then 2000 old people will not get fans.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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