View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #1011
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    Possibly. The country is in a recession. This would be something that one would expect to see during times of recession. How could upward mobility be positively impacted? (Hint: it isn't raising taxes on corporations.)
    It's prevalent as far back as we have reliable data, not just the last few years.

    Since I generally believe raising taxes on corporations is not a good thing I don't know what you're going on about.
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    Perhaps. Perhaps greed is also bad. But it is not illegal. Neither is envy. If I have 10 apples and you have none, and I refuse to give you an apple, that is my right- because it's my goddamned apple. End of story.
    If you and I were isolated on an island then my obvious response would be violence since the possibility of starving to death would leave me no other alternative than to fight for my life and take your apples if I can. This is called survival and just because capitalism has idealized it doesn't mean real life survival has disappeared. Society isn't some thought experiment. There are real people out here and many die for no other reason than someone else's greed. People will not willingly die for the greed of others. Since many do die for another's greed it's obvious the greedy ones exercise a threat of violence over those less fortunate. That these threats are legal is verification that society is failing to protect the weak.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-25-12 at 09:42 PM.
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  3. #1013
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    If you can show me how the wealthy are responsible for this I will entertain the argument. You can't just list problems and say that the wealthy are responsible for it. If you taxed the wealthy at 100%, this would be a third world country within 2 years. They are critical to the growth of our economy. When was the last time you saw a welfare recipient create a job?
    Every dollar a welfare recipient spends creates jobs. The fallacy is that the rich are solely responsible for job creation. Business have been re-learning this simple truth since the Crash. Demand creates jobs, not capital. If there is no demand, no consumer spending, then there are on jobs.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-25-12 at 09:51 PM.
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  4. #1014
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Every dollar a welfare recipient spends creates jobs. The fallacy is that the rich are solely responsible for job creation. Business have been re-learning this simple truth since the Crash. Demand creates jobs, not capital. If there is no demand, no consumer spending, then there are on jobs.
    It is a balance between supply and demand. This is a capitalistic principal.

    If you and I were isolated on an island then my obvious response would be violence since the possibility of starving to death would leave me no other alternative than to fight for my life and take your apples if I can. This is called survival and just because capitalism has idealized it doesn't mean real life survival has disappeared. Society isn't some thought experiment. There are real people out here and many die for no other reason than someone else's greed. People will not willingly die for the greed of others. Since many do die for another's greed it's obvious the greedy ones exercise a threat of violence over those less fortunate. That these threats are legal is verification that society is failing to protect the weak.
    I agree with the principal of survival of the fittest. I would challenge you to prove to me that a person died recently due to the greed of another. I don't believe that has happened. Even if someone has died, they have died, perhaps, of starvation- starvation due to the fact that they haven't killed anything and drug it home. Those who have "killed it and drug it home" did not prevent the other man from doing so. There is plenty of game to "kill." No sense in saying that because I have food and you don't and you die from starvation- that I killed you. Ridiculous.

    If you and I were on an island, and I had apples and you didn't, you would rather resort to violence than to sit back, think, and say to yourself "Gee. If he has apples, there must be a ****ing apple tree!"

    It's prevalent as far back as we have reliable data, not just the last few years.
    Upward mobility exists. Maybe not in all industries, but I have worked in several- and worked my way up the ladder each time. By hard work. I disagree that there is no upward mobility.

    A lot of immigrants came over from Europe a little while back. Came through Ellis Island in search of opportunity. They found it here, starting small businesses, hiring people- many of them becoming wealthy. The problem is that people aren't willing to put in the work to obtain the "upward mobility." Just want to blame others for their lack of success.
    Last edited by kamikaze483; 06-25-12 at 10:29 PM.

  5. #1015
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Every dollar a welfare recipient spends creates jobs. The fallacy is that the rich are solely responsible for job creation. Business have been re-learning this simple truth since the Crash. Demand creates jobs, not capital. If there is no demand, no consumer spending, then there are on jobs.

    spending money on crack, lottery tickets etc doesn't do much for society. No one has said the rich are solely responsible for job creation. But what I find disgusting is that so many on the left think one's wealth is completely subordinate to the "good of society" (in reality the good of dem politicians)and that taxes should be based solely on perceived ability to pay

  6. #1016
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    It is a balance between supply and demand. This is a capitalistic principal.
    Without demand supply is useless. You can't make money from 1000 widgets if no one wants or can afford a widget.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    I agree with the principal of survival of the fittest. I would challenge you to prove to me that a person died recently due to the greed of another. I don't believe that has happened. Even if someone has died, they have died, perhaps, of starvation- starvation due to the fact that they haven't killed anything and drug it home. Those who have "killed it and drug it home" did not prevent the other man from doing so. There is plenty of game to "kill." No sense in saying that because I have food and you don't and you die from starvation- that I killed you. Ridiculous.
    It's starting to get hot in many places across the country right now. Just watch the news papers and lets see how many old people die from heat stroke because they lack a fan and/or the electricity to run it. They die by the hundreds every year. In winter they freeze to death. People usually die from disease brought on by malnutrition instead of dying from actual starvation. There's no denying the deaths in this country from greed.


    If you mean there are plenty of jobs ("game to kill"), that's pure horsecrap. Take your lies elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    If you and I were on an island, and I had apples and you didn't, you would rather resort to violence than to sit back, think, and say to yourself "Gee. If he has apples, there must be a ****ing apple tree!"
    According to you guys everything has an owner and since you called them your apples I assumed you owned the tree. If it's your tree then they're your apples and you'd call it theft whether I took the apples from the tree or from your hoard.

    Or are you advocating that society own the means of production?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    Upward mobility exists. Maybe not in all industries, but I have worked in several- and worked my way up the ladder each time. By hard work. I disagree that there is no upward mobility.
    This is what you call upward mobility?!?!?

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  7. #1017
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    spending money on crack, lottery tickets etc doesn't do much for society.
    Something like 48% of the lotto money goes to education. I can't help the stupidity of government that makes selling drugs a billion dollar industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    No one has said the rich are solely responsible for job creation.
    Yeah, the term "job creators" just appeared spontaneously.

    Republicans are great at The Big Lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    But what I find disgusting is that so many on the left think one's wealth is completely subordinate to the "good of society" (in reality the good of dem politicians)and that taxes should be based solely on perceived ability to pay
    The rich eat and eat and eat then whine when presented with the bill.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-26-12 at 08:57 AM.
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    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #1018
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Something like 48% of the lotto money goes to education. I can't help the stupidity of government that makes selling drugs a billion dollar industry.

    Yeah, the term "job creators" just appeared spontaneously.

    Republicans are great at The Big Lie.

    The rich eat and eat and eat then whine when presented with the bill.
    still posting under the delusion that the rich are somehow given your money?

  9. #1019
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    its irrelevant. That wealth was purchased with income already taxed. If I make a million dollars a year and have 500K left over after expenses and taxes and I buy my wife an expensive painting or a summer cottage why should I pay tax on that wealth?
    Because that is the way things work. Do you know what sales tax is? Do you know what property tax is? I can provide some links if they would help you.
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    still posting under the delusion that the rich are somehow given your money?
    Still posting under the delusion that the value of you and yours is the same as the value of me and mine?


    It's odd how the rich always seem the poorest come April 15th.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-26-12 at 10:01 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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