View Poll Results: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

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  • Yes

    82 45.30%
  • No

    99 54.70%
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Thread: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

  1. #91
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You are proposing eliminating the sales tax????
    that's a state matter-why do you tax hike (on the rich) fans always want to mix tax systems?

    a sales tax is one of the most fair-the more you buy the more you pay and the parasites in office cannot pander to the masses by giving them more goodies paid for by increasing the top bracket

  2. #92
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    To IPAST


    GE paid nothing? GE provided hundreds of thousands of jobs which all provided income tax at federal and state levels. are we better off having GE in existence-of course

  3. #93
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    psychobabble.
    TD, I shouldn't be able to refute every argument you make with arguments I have previously made to you. Do you just not get that or what?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    very few people are in that group you whine about
    No idea why you thought that was relevant. If anything, that would be an argument in my favor...

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that group still pays a far higher effective income tax rate than the vast majority of americans.
    No. Again, they pay just under half of the effective tax rate of the vast majority of Americans. Close to 15% for them, the median American pays 27%.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    MORE IMPORTANTLY, they pay MILLIONS in actual tax dollars meaning they are paying far more than 60+ million people COMBINED
    Again, as has been explained to you many, many, times, that is just an indication of how severe the concentration of wealth is. That is an argument for why taxation needs to be made more progressive, not less.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    there is much more to fairness than actual percentages. The rich don't get any more value back than those paying no taxes so on that ground anyone paying more than the average federal tax bill is paying more than their fair share
    Oh come on TD. How many times has this claim of yours been debunked. It's just disgusting that you still sit there pretending like it is true when you know full well that we have debunked it over and over and that you've never been able to defend it. Get your act together.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  4. #94
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by leftofabbie View Post
    So you're OK with a factory worker making $40K a year paying the same amount as David Koch, who earned more than $5 billion last year?
    well its not possible given how greedy and bloated the government has become but ideally yes. Kock doesn't get any additional value from the government and indeed he provides more to society. and if that factory worker knew everyone would pay the same tax bill, he might be far less likely to support some left wing politician who tries to buy his vote by promising more government.

    If you cannot afford more taxes you cannot afford more government-sadly the current system encourages those who claim they cannot pay more taxes to vote for those who promise them more government

  5. #95
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    So you're saying that money you get for nothing should be taxed less than money you earn? Why? Should lottery winnings and gambling winnings and whatnot be taxed at a lower rate too? Why?



    You do get a tax break for losses. In fact, not only can losses cancel out any wins for a given year, but if you're crafty about when you sell the stock that took the loss, you can potentially cancel out any wins for many years.

    But, regardless, with investments you have to accept risk, but with wages you have to work for it. Personally, I think working 50 hours a week is a much bigger sacrifice than accepting some risk. Especially given that it isn't exactly a 50/50 bet. On average, investors win. And, if they lose bad, those losses just get put back on society as a whole due to limited liability. I see the risk argument as, at most, offsetting the "you don't have to work for it" argument.
    Your "either or argument" makes me suspect that you work yet do not invest, so you prefer "equal" treatment of these earnings. Investing is needed to create jobs for all who work directly for, or do business with, any corporation or small business (just about everyone). Why put money in a bank, or invest it in a business if you can simply spend it now? Do you honestly believe that nobody should have any tax incentive to save or invest, rather than simply spend all of their income now? Why invest in the U.S. if they tax 100% of your gains, instead of Singapor or China if they do not? Much of the movement of capital and jobs to off-shore locations is precisely to avoid the higher U.S. taxation. The rich are not rich because they are stupid or patriotic.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-03-12 at 03:10 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #96
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by leftofabbie View Post
    Yes, the top rates are higher, but you're overlooking the fact that the top 10% of America's earners are taking home 50% of America's income. This is much more lopsided than other OECD countries.
    but in those countries the rich tend to pay the same share of the tax burden as their share of the income-same with the middle class In our country the top 5% pay more than half the tax burden and the top one percent pay a huge disparity between their share of the income (22%) and their share of the FIT burden (39+%)

  7. #97
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Er, you contended that investment income wasn't income.
    No, I contended that inheritance is not income.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    So you're saying that money you get for nothing should be taxed less than money you earn? Why? Should lottery winnings and gambling winnings and whatnot be taxed at a lower rate too? Why?
    Lottery and gambling are a bit like investing, just with far smaller chances for a much larger gain. They are not the same mechanism, but I see them as similar in that way.

    I think that letting a family keep its assets in the family is essential. Having to forfeit a large chunk of a person's estate because they died is a bad tax policy idea for a number of reasons. The focus need not be on whether children have a right to inherit, but rather, should people have the liberty to build up savings and (if they don't have to burn through them), leave it to their children?

    But, regardless, with investments you have to accept risk, but with wages you have to work for it. Personally, I think working 50 hours a week is a much bigger sacrifice than accepting some risk.
    Personally, I think working 50 hours a week is not a sacrifice at all, because it contains virtually no investment risk. I can count on that paycheck if I put in 50 hours. Plus it feels healthy to actually, you know, work. Accepting investment risk, especially after the roller coaster of the last decade, is much more of a sense of sacrifice to me, because usually I'm putting up many, many 50-hour weeks' worth of disposable income and it could just evaporate because rich bankers and corporate knobjobs I've never met are taking enormous, stupid risks that send panic into the system and **** everything up.

    To a motivated, risk-averse, conservative, prudent person, working a full time job is not thought of as sacrifice. We are not victims because we work. We are victims if our work is mooched off of excessively, however.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 06-03-12 at 03:12 PM.

  8. #98
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that's a state matter-why do you tax hike (on the rich) fans always want to mix tax systems?

    a sales tax is one of the most fair-the more you buy the more you pay and the parasites in office cannot pander to the masses by giving them more goodies paid for by increasing the top bracket
    It also taxes money made (and spent) from ALL sources, even criminal proceeds (drug profits) get taxed when they are spent.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #99
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    TD, I shouldn't be able to refute every argument you make with arguments I have previously made to you. Do you just not get that or what?



    No idea why you thought that was relevant. If anything, that would be an argument in my favor...



    No. Again, they pay just under half of the effective tax rate of the vast majority of Americans. Close to 15% for them, the median American pays 27%.



    Again, as has been explained to you many, many, times, that is just an indication of how severe the concentration of wealth is. That is an argument for why taxation needs to be made more progressive, not less.



    Oh come on TD. How many times has this claim of yours been debunked. It's just disgusting that you still sit there pretending like it is true when you know full well that we have debunked it over and over and that you've never been able to defend it. Get your act together.
    You engage in the usual leftwing dishonesty about taxes. Romney's FIT effective rate is higher than 97% of the effective FIT rate of Americans. You try to use non progressive taxes such as state taxes, FICA, gasoline etc to create an overall tax rate which is made up of often non-progressive taxes. The only fair comparison when it comes to progressive tax rates are progressive taxes

    and that again is based on an assumption that taxes should be progressive.

    and I don't care if wealth is concentrated. winners win, losers lose and giving the government power to even things up to slake the envy of the left causes far more problems

  10. #100
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    Re: Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    It also taxes money made (and spent) from ALL sources, even criminal proceeds (drug profits) get taxed when they are spent.
    and even more importantly, it castrates the extraconstitutional power the government grabbed with the IRS

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