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Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

  • No

    Votes: 36 76.6%

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 23.4%
  • Total voters
    47
samsmart said:
Not in and of itself, as there are very many facets of the human condition - such raising a family - that have nothing to do with production.
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And the state has no role in that.

Only in name.
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As a political unit.
 
samsmart said:
So you want to destroy that ability for those without property to prosper, and for them to become enslaved to those who do.

Even though ownership of property is no indicator of good governance.
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That's not what happened in England after the Glorious Revolution, and it's not how the serfs got stuck in the situation that they're in.
 
Dezaad said:
Well, then, why not advocate that there be a Constitutional Amendment against taxes, and still allow everyone to vote?

You completely ignore the right of people to govern themselves through representation simply because the wealthy are taxed 'too much' in your mind. I think that is outrageous. You may think it is outrageous that the wealthy are taxed too much, but I am appalled that you think that trumps the rights of citizens to govern themselves. It quite simply doesn't. You would have absolutely no right to expect adults who have no representation to agree to follow the laws. They rightly would not consider themselves to be bound by the social contract.
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The federal government has too large of a role. With that in mind, everyone's taxes are too high, not just the rich.
 
Should vote? No

Allowed to vote? Yes

This with the understanding that "uninformed" means someone who actually doesn't have any information regarding the race or the candidates...not that they simply have information you disagree with, you think is wrong, or you find biased.
 
"Citizen Responsibilities

Obeying Laws
Paying Taxes
Jury Duty
Serve as a Witness
Register for the Draft
Voting

The duties or responsibilities of a United States citizen can be separated into two groups: mandatory responsibilities, such as paying taxes, and duties not demanded by law, such as voting."

"The right to vote is a duty or responsibility as well as a privilege. It is important for all citizens to vote in every election to make sure that the democratic, representative system of government is maintained. Persons who do not vote lose their voice in the government. Before voting in an election, each citizen should be well informed about the issues and candidates."

Citizen Responsibilities - UEN
 
ttwtt78640 said:
First you must define "uninformed". If MSNBC says vote for Obama, and they do, then that voter may thus consider themselves informed and vote based on being so informed. This is sad but true.
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I was thinking about what it means to be informed. I find most people uninformed and only a minority to be informed. The informed ones can argue all the sides of an issue, not mimic, but argue. So I'd like to saw only informed voter should vote, but then so few would vote that wouldn't be good. Right now it seems that watching advertising is the way to become informed.
 
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I vote, but I usually skip the votes on questions like "Should Judge So-And-So be retained." I normally have no idea whether a particular judge is doing a good or a bad job. I've tried looking up judges online, but rarely have I found any useful info.
 
samsmart said:
If we're going to require licenses to vote, then I also want a license to be a parent, because I think that's the most dangerous thing in this world for a person to do.
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You can't control sexual behavior behind closed doors. You can control a voting booth.
 
Zyphlin said:
Should vote? No

Allowed to vote? Yes

This with the understanding that "uninformed" means someone who actually doesn't have any information regarding the race or the candidates...not that they simply have information you disagree with, you think is wrong, or you find biased.
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Well, they have the right to drive a car too...they just have to pass a test. The Right to Bear Arms is not denied either. They just have to register pistols and take tests to carry. The right to vote should have a basic test. It's about responsibility. And as much as we preach about how responsible one must be to drive a car or carry a gun...perhaps we should apply the same measures to our preachings about the responsibility of Americans to vote.
 
MSgt said:
Well, they have the right to drive a car too...they just have to pass a test. The Right to Bear Arms is not denied either. They just have to register pistols and take tests to carry. The right to vote should have a basic test. It's about responsibility. And as much as we preach about how responsible one must be to drive a car or carry a gun...perhaps we should apply the same measures to our preachings about the responsibility of Americans to vote.
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You are mixing apples and oranges here. Driving is NOT a constitutional right, it is a state issued privilege, so the state may require a class, test and fee to issue a "permit" for it. Voting and keeping/bearing arms ARE constitutional rights and thus SHOULD NOT be allowed to be limitted (infringed) by the state. Since we have the 2nd and 24th amendments it SHOULD not be legal for the state to convert these (or any) constitutional rights into mere, state issued, privileges by requiring a class, test or fee.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
You are mixing apples and oranges here. Driving is NOT a constitutional right, it is a state issued privilege, so the state may require a class, test and fee to issue a "permit" for it. Voting and keeping/bearing arms ARE constitutional rights and thus SHOULD NOT be allowed to be limitted (infringed) by the state. Since we have the 2nd and 24th amendments it SHOULD not be legal for the state to convert these (or any) constitutional rights into mere, state issued, privileges by requiring a class, test or fee.
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Regardless, it is your right to drive. It is your right to own a gun. It is your right to vote. It is your right to buy gallons of soda. Simply applying a test doesn't change your right. The Constitution (something else most voters have never even read) is piece of paper. It's a rag. It is an idea. In the end, the idea is preserved, but only as it applies to the safety and security of the government ("We the People"). We apply law to preserve those rights responsibly. Therefore, how does the idiot college student fulfill his obligation in the booth if he doesn't even understand the world he lives in or our politics? There are penty of Conservatives that only vote Republican because of religon, yet they will complain against what the Republican Party believes in at every turn...and not know it. There are plenty of Liberals who only vote Democrat because of the social utopian dream, yet they will complain against what the Democratic Party believes in at every turn...and not know it. The problem isn't that they have to pick and choose. The problem is that they have no clue.

I would bet that most voters cuoldn't tell you what "big government" is or "trickle down" is or what even the base of definition is for either a Republican or a Democrat. Yet, they will vote irresponsibly because it is their "right."
 
MSgt said:
Regardless, it is your right to drive. It is your right to own a gun. It is your right to vote. It is your right to buy gallons of soda. Simply applying a test doesn't change your right. The Constitution (something else most voters have never even read) is piece of paper. It's a rag. It is an idea. In the end, the idea is preserved, but only as it applies to the safety and security of the government ("We the People"). We apply law to preserve those rights responsibly. Therefore, how does the idiot college student fulfill his obligation in the booth if he doesn't even understand the world he lives in or our politics? There are penty of Conservatives that only vote Republican because of religon, yet they will complain against what the Republican Party believes in at every turn...and not know it. There are plenty of Liberals who only vote Democrat because of the social utopian dream, yet they will complain against what the Democratic Party believes in at every turn...and not know it. The problem isn't that they have to pick and choose. The problem is that they have no clue.

I would bet that most voters cuoldn't tell you what "big government" is or "trickle down" is or what even the base of definition is for either a Republican or a Democrat. Yet, they will vote irresponsibly because it is their "right."
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That's a load of BS. Applying a test (or fee) most certainly affects a "right", as you have but one of two possible outcomes, you pass the test (or pay the fee) and keep the "right" or you fail the test (or not pay the fee) and lose the "right". If you can not see the difference between a "right" and a "privilege" then no further argument is possible.

You have no RIGHT to drive, at all, and never did. Driving is a state issued PRIVILEGE, nothing more.

The constitution, while old and often misunderstood, is the "glue" that holds this nation together, defining limitted powers for the federal gov't, defining specific rights reserved to the people and leaving all else for the states to decide.
 
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NotEliTanenbaum said:
Note that I'm not asking if uninformed citizens should be allowed to vote. I'm just whether you think they should vote.
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Who decides if they are "informed" or not?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That's a load of BS. Applying a test (or fee) most certainly affects a "right", as you have but one of two possible outcomes, you pass the test (or pay the fee) and keep the "right" or you fail the test (or not pay the fee) and lose the "right". If you can not see the difference between a "right" and a "privilege" then no further argument is possible.

You have no RIGHT to drive, at all, and never did. Driving is a state issued PRIVILEGE, nothing more.
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Alright then forget the symantic argument of the driving issue. The moment someone simply takes your license away, you will complain about your rights. But, you are missing the point.

Applying a test does not affect your right. All you have to do is prove to society that you are responsible. Not everyone can purchase a pistol, yet it is your right to own it. Yet you will also be screened to ensure that your past behaviors do not contradict that right. If you wish to carry (right to bare), you will pass a test. Voting for people that will send troops to their deaths or to commit murder on behalf of the American people is a responsibility that should absolutely involve a license. Pass a test...and earn your right.

The constitution is a BS fall back that serves all people in their quest to design an argument. Laws and responsibilty build society. Constitutions do not.
 
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NolaMan said:
Who decides if they are "informed" or not?
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Do you know the difference between a Democracy and a Republic? The Democratic Party and the Republican Party? A Centrist and a Liberal or a Conservative? The difference between socialism, capitalism, fascism, communism, etc.? How many voters don't have a clue? These are simple black and white definitions that do not involve a voter's understanding of individual laws or current events, yet they will vote for an illusion and give the power to control every aspect of human life to people who either have an R or a D.
 
MSgt said:
Do you know the difference between a Democracy and a Republic? The Democratic Party and the Republican Party? A Centrist and a Liberal or a Conservative? The difference between socialism, capitalism, fascism, communism, etc.? How many voters don't have a clue? These are simple black and white definitions that do not involve a voter's understanding of individual laws or current events, yet they will vote for an illusion and give the power to control every aspect of human life to people who either have an R or a D.
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I do indeed know the difference -- but the question is unanswered. Who decides if they are informed?
 
NolaMan said:
I do indeed know the difference -- but the question is unanswered. Who decides if they are informed?
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Government. I just answered that. If you can answer those simple questions that every voter should know, then government has decided. You pass and society at least knows that you even know the difference between the two parties.

Universities decide if students are informed everytime they take an exam. Government decides if you are informed if you pass a driver's test or a gun permit test. We live in a nation where the basics of our politicial system isn't even taught in High School. Yet, when they turn 18 they have the power to send me off to war? To assume who in the world gets more humanitarian aid than others? To assume that either a Democrat or a Republican actually represents him, which is merely based on Mommy and Daddy? Should there be any wonder why so many "liberals" turn into Republicans as they get older? Or why so many get bitter at all of it? It's because they start out uninformed and base their decisions on an illusion.
 
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MSgt said:
Government. I just answered that. If you can answer those simple questions that every voter should know, then government has decided. You pass and society at least knows that you even know the difference between the two parties.

Universities decide if students are informed everytime they take an exam. Government decides if you are informed if you pass a driver's test or a gun permit test. We live in a nation where the basics of our politicial system isn't even taught in High School. Yet, when they turn 18 they have the power to send me off to war? To assume who in the world gets more humanitarian aid than others? To assume that either a Democrat or a Republican actually represents him, which is merely based on Mommy and Daddy? Should there be any wonder why so many "liberals" turn into Republicans as they get older? Or why so many get bitter at all of it? It's because they start out uninformed and base their decisions on an illusion.
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So in order to get stupidity out of government....we need more government?
 
NolaMan said:
So in order to get stupidity out of government....we need more government?
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We always need more government in some places and less in others. Pretending the absence of government will set us free merely offers anarchy. We are organized under a government that more or less hinges on the core ballot of voters. Voters.....who do not know the difference between the Parties.
 
Uninformed non-citizens like mitt romney shouldnt vote.
 
99percenter said:
Uninformed non-citizens like mitt romney shouldnt vote.
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Not yes, but hell yes! They balance out the vote of the misinformed. There's a lot of that going around.
 
Voting is a right so if you meet the necessary requirements there isnt much you can do but let 'em vote.I do however think that everyone be required to take a civics class or two or watch every episode of 'schoolhouse rock'.
 
Uninformed people aren't as bad as irrational people, and irrational people are far more common too. If you think that this only applies to one party, then you're one of them.
 
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