View Poll Results: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

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  • No

    44 75.86%
  • Yes

    14 24.14%
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Thread: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

  1. #81
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    No. Oh, God, please no.

    Referendum is such an attractive idea on paper, but then you look at places like California and you realize that a great majority of their deep problems are precisely due to referendum.
    No - their deep problems are due to referendum without adding taxes to pay for government programs.

    We can have it so that any federal referendum that increases costs to the government also includes what will be taxed in order to pay for it.

    I think that's better than what we have now - elected legislators who pass laws but add all these exemptions to interests that lobby them and pay them for those tax exemptions.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  2. #82
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    No - their deep problems are due to referendum without adding taxes to pay for government programs.

    We can have it so that any federal referendum that increases costs to the government also includes what will be taxed in order to pay for it.

    I think that's better than what we have now - elected legislators who pass laws but add all these exemptions to interests that lobby them and pay them for those tax exemptions.
    It could be tweaked, fair point, but no offense... having lived most of my life in California, and seeing what has happened, it would take a lot of convincing to get me to consider that kind of system.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  3. #83
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    It could be tweaked, fair point, but no offense... having lived most of my life in California, and seeing what has happened, it would take a lot of convincing to get me to consider that kind of system.
    No offense taken.

    I would even go so far as to say that such legislation that requires funding done via federal referendum must be paid for by a national sales tax.

    That way it is uniform and it is regressive and it targets everybody rather than a certain group of people. And that way everybody feels the burden of that referendum directly.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  4. #84
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by NotEliTanenbaum View Post
    Note that I'm not asking if uninformed citizens should be allowed to vote. I'm just whether you think they should vote.
    Absolutely they should vote! They're over 18 and their opinion counts just as much as anybody elses.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  5. #85
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Which is why voting should be more populist, not less.

    And why I advocate a method to pass federal law via referendum.

    Let the people themselves the chance to write legisalation so that we can get laws in place that won't be blocked by wealthy people paying campaign contributions to our Congressmen.
    You think this country isn't dysfunctional enough? You want more legislation? What's wrong with having smaller governments get more power so that we actually have a chance of influencing politics?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #86
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Except a government's sole concern is not production - rather, it also includes the well-being of its citizenry. And shareholders in a company are not inherently concerned with the well-being of the people. Rather, corporations are more concerned with generating profit - even at the cost it incurs to their employees and consumers.

    Which is why it is totally unethical to develop a government system based on corporations.
    Production ensures our well being. If you have no production, then you're stuck with your current level of scarcity. We should want to try to end scarcity as much as possible.

    After all, that was how the Republic of Rome was organized and it was the most successful country that has ever existed on this planet.
    Fixed it for you.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #87
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    ...will vote like you. Thank you for confirming my point.
    Way to go and completely miss the point.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #88
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You think this country isn't dysfunctional enough? You want more legislation? What's wrong with having smaller governments get more power so that we actually have a chance of influencing politics?
    So let me get this straight.

    You want people to exert more influence over politics by reducing their ability to vote.

    Is that what you just told me?
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  9. #89
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Production ensures our well being. If you have no production, then you're stuck with your current level of scarcity. We should want to try to end scarcity as much as possible.
    I didn't say production wasn't important.

    I said production wasn't the only criteria a government should consider.

    It's okay to have nuance and be diversified in what people care about.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Fixed it for you.
    Really? Is that why there was constant political instability, civil wars, assassinations, invasions, abuse of people via slavery?

    I can't really call a nation to be economically successful when a militant dictator decides to pay for his tyranny by killing the citizens of that state and seizing their property.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  10. #90
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    So let me get this straight.

    You want people to exert more influence over politics by reducing their ability to vote.

    Is that what you just told me?
    If someone can't make enough money to buy a house, they're probably not the brightest crayon in the box.

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