View Poll Results: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

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58. You may not vote on this poll
  • No

    44 75.86%
  • Yes

    14 24.14%
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Thread: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

  1. #111
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Well, they have the right to drive a car too...they just have to pass a test. The Right to Bear Arms is not denied either. They just have to register pistols and take tests to carry. The right to vote should have a basic test. It's about responsibility. And as much as we preach about how responsible one must be to drive a car or carry a gun...perhaps we should apply the same measures to our preachings about the responsibility of Americans to vote.
    You are mixing apples and oranges here. Driving is NOT a constitutional right, it is a state issued privilege, so the state may require a class, test and fee to issue a "permit" for it. Voting and keeping/bearing arms ARE constitutional rights and thus SHOULD NOT be allowed to be limitted (infringed) by the state. Since we have the 2nd and 24th amendments it SHOULD not be legal for the state to convert these (or any) constitutional rights into mere, state issued, privileges by requiring a class, test or fee.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #112
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    You are mixing apples and oranges here. Driving is NOT a constitutional right, it is a state issued privilege, so the state may require a class, test and fee to issue a "permit" for it. Voting and keeping/bearing arms ARE constitutional rights and thus SHOULD NOT be allowed to be limitted (infringed) by the state. Since we have the 2nd and 24th amendments it SHOULD not be legal for the state to convert these (or any) constitutional rights into mere, state issued, privileges by requiring a class, test or fee.
    Regardless, it is your right to drive. It is your right to own a gun. It is your right to vote. It is your right to buy gallons of soda. Simply applying a test doesn't change your right. The Constitution (something else most voters have never even read) is piece of paper. It's a rag. It is an idea. In the end, the idea is preserved, but only as it applies to the safety and security of the government ("We the People"). We apply law to preserve those rights responsibly. Therefore, how does the idiot college student fulfill his obligation in the booth if he doesn't even understand the world he lives in or our politics? There are penty of Conservatives that only vote Republican because of religon, yet they will complain against what the Republican Party believes in at every turn...and not know it. There are plenty of Liberals who only vote Democrat because of the social utopian dream, yet they will complain against what the Democratic Party believes in at every turn...and not know it. The problem isn't that they have to pick and choose. The problem is that they have no clue.

    I would bet that most voters cuoldn't tell you what "big government" is or "trickle down" is or what even the base of definition is for either a Republican or a Democrat. Yet, they will vote irresponsibly because it is their "right."

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  3. #113
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Regardless, it is your right to drive. It is your right to own a gun. It is your right to vote. It is your right to buy gallons of soda. Simply applying a test doesn't change your right. The Constitution (something else most voters have never even read) is piece of paper. It's a rag. It is an idea. In the end, the idea is preserved, but only as it applies to the safety and security of the government ("We the People"). We apply law to preserve those rights responsibly. Therefore, how does the idiot college student fulfill his obligation in the booth if he doesn't even understand the world he lives in or our politics? There are penty of Conservatives that only vote Republican because of religon, yet they will complain against what the Republican Party believes in at every turn...and not know it. There are plenty of Liberals who only vote Democrat because of the social utopian dream, yet they will complain against what the Democratic Party believes in at every turn...and not know it. The problem isn't that they have to pick and choose. The problem is that they have no clue.

    I would bet that most voters cuoldn't tell you what "big government" is or "trickle down" is or what even the base of definition is for either a Republican or a Democrat. Yet, they will vote irresponsibly because it is their "right."
    That's a load of BS. Applying a test (or fee) most certainly affects a "right", as you have but one of two possible outcomes, you pass the test (or pay the fee) and keep the "right" or you fail the test (or not pay the fee) and lose the "right". If you can not see the difference between a "right" and a "privilege" then no further argument is possible.

    You have no RIGHT to drive, at all, and never did. Driving is a state issued PRIVILEGE, nothing more.

    The constitution, while old and often misunderstood, is the "glue" that holds this nation together, defining limitted powers for the federal gov't, defining specific rights reserved to the people and leaving all else for the states to decide.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-08-12 at 12:57 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #114
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by NotEliTanenbaum View Post
    Note that I'm not asking if uninformed citizens should be allowed to vote. I'm just whether you think they should vote.
    Who decides if they are "informed" or not?

  5. #115
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    Who decides if they are "informed" or not?
    According to the SCOTUS nobody can.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #116
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That's a load of BS. Applying a test (or fee) most certainly affects a "right", as you have but one of two possible outcomes, you pass the test (or pay the fee) and keep the "right" or you fail the test (or not pay the fee) and lose the "right". If you can not see the difference between a "right" and a "privilege" then no further argument is possible.

    You have no RIGHT to drive, at all, and never did. Driving is a state issued PRIVILEGE, nothing more.
    Alright then forget the symantic argument of the driving issue. The moment someone simply takes your license away, you will complain about your rights. But, you are missing the point.

    Applying a test does not affect your right. All you have to do is prove to society that you are responsible. Not everyone can purchase a pistol, yet it is your right to own it. Yet you will also be screened to ensure that your past behaviors do not contradict that right. If you wish to carry (right to bare), you will pass a test. Voting for people that will send troops to their deaths or to commit murder on behalf of the American people is a responsibility that should absolutely involve a license. Pass a test...and earn your right.

    The constitution is a BS fall back that serves all people in their quest to design an argument. Laws and responsibilty build society. Constitutions do not.
    Last edited by MSgt; 06-08-12 at 01:41 PM.

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  7. #117
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    Who decides if they are "informed" or not?
    Do you know the difference between a Democracy and a Republic? The Democratic Party and the Republican Party? A Centrist and a Liberal or a Conservative? The difference between socialism, capitalism, fascism, communism, etc.? How many voters don't have a clue? These are simple black and white definitions that do not involve a voter's understanding of individual laws or current events, yet they will vote for an illusion and give the power to control every aspect of human life to people who either have an R or a D.

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  8. #118
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Do you know the difference between a Democracy and a Republic? The Democratic Party and the Republican Party? A Centrist and a Liberal or a Conservative? The difference between socialism, capitalism, fascism, communism, etc.? How many voters don't have a clue? These are simple black and white definitions that do not involve a voter's understanding of individual laws or current events, yet they will vote for an illusion and give the power to control every aspect of human life to people who either have an R or a D.
    I do indeed know the difference -- but the question is unanswered. Who decides if they are informed?

  9. #119
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    I do indeed know the difference -- but the question is unanswered. Who decides if they are informed?
    Government. I just answered that. If you can answer those simple questions that every voter should know, then government has decided. You pass and society at least knows that you even know the difference between the two parties.

    Universities decide if students are informed everytime they take an exam. Government decides if you are informed if you pass a driver's test or a gun permit test. We live in a nation where the basics of our politicial system isn't even taught in High School. Yet, when they turn 18 they have the power to send me off to war? To assume who in the world gets more humanitarian aid than others? To assume that either a Democrat or a Republican actually represents him, which is merely based on Mommy and Daddy? Should there be any wonder why so many "liberals" turn into Republicans as they get older? Or why so many get bitter at all of it? It's because they start out uninformed and base their decisions on an illusion.
    Last edited by MSgt; 06-08-12 at 02:18 PM.

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  10. #120
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    Re: Should Uninformed Citizens Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Government. I just answered that. If you can answer those simple questions that every voter should know, then government has decided. You pass and society at least knows that you even know the difference between the two parties.

    Universities decide if students are informed everytime they take an exam. Government decides if you are informed if you pass a driver's test or a gun permit test. We live in a nation where the basics of our politicial system isn't even taught in High School. Yet, when they turn 18 they have the power to send me off to war? To assume who in the world gets more humanitarian aid than others? To assume that either a Democrat or a Republican actually represents him, which is merely based on Mommy and Daddy? Should there be any wonder why so many "liberals" turn into Republicans as they get older? Or why so many get bitter at all of it? It's because they start out uninformed and base their decisions on an illusion.
    So in order to get stupidity out of government....we need more government?

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