View Poll Results: Is the USA a Democracy For Sale?

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  • Yes

    34 82.93%
  • No

    5 12.20%
  • Other

    2 4.88%
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Thread: Is American Democracy For Sale?

  1. #71
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Well, democracy of course. You can't have democracy without people, and the people who live in this alleged democracy have failed to insist on theor powers of democracy, and in that sense democracy has failed in this country. This does not say democracy is dead; quite the contrary is true, I'm just saying that The People have allowed their part in this democracy to be suppressed. So we don't so much live in a functioning democracy the way we did up until Jimmy Cater's presidency.
    Oh, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that democracy as a form of government was a failure, when what you meant is that we have failed.

    Can't argue with you there.

  2. #72
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krasche View Post
    So I suppose you believe Lincoln, Grant, and Teddy Roosevelt didn't do ****?? And you call Obama's period "productive"? really? How so? The debt under Obama has gone up by 5 trillion in just 3 years. Bush was in for 8, and yet Obama's already matched if not passed him in debt increase. Not saying Bush was very good, but Obama isn't much better.
    I never said that those presdients were not good men; Grant was actually a miserable failure and an acute alcoholic. Both Lincoln and Roosevelt were much more liberal than the curretn conservative base will admit: that's why they never bring those guys up. What I have said numerous times, is that my respect for the Republican stopped at Dwight Eisenhower. Since Dwight Eisnhower, the Republicans have done nothing that added up to any good whatsoever in the way of governance. Therefore, I maintain my argument that the Republican party has zero to run on. That's why they spend so much time just running other people down! Imean; think about it: have you ever wondered why the Republicans don't just match good deeds head to head in their campaigns? Because they have no good deeds to run on, that's why. At the very least, Obama succeeded where Truman left off in opening the door to health care reform. Where were the Republicans while all this was going on?

    Obama is no hero of mine; of that you can be sure -- but he's not a Republican drawn from today's Republican field either. Romney is going to get hammered, only becasue he's a Republican; I mean as Republicans go, look at the record he's follwing!

    Hey, I sympathize with you; I'd like nothing better than to see the Republicans proveably change their agenda, their tactics and actually prove to this country thay have our best interests at heart.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Kids who want to end our rights as a stupid reaction to a traumatic event shouldn't be cut any slack. Can you imagine the outcry if some kids who say were victimized by predatory priests came out and demanded laws banning homosexual sex?

  3. #73
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Oh, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that democracy as a form of government was a failure, when what you meant is that we have failed.

    Can't argue with you there.
    Yeah; I mean, I like your avatar, but people today just don't get what that means, and they allow themselves to be; pretty much seduced and bullied into giving that stance up.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Kids who want to end our rights as a stupid reaction to a traumatic event shouldn't be cut any slack. Can you imagine the outcry if some kids who say were victimized by predatory priests came out and demanded laws banning homosexual sex?

  4. #74
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You're defining the difference between direct democray and the representative democracy that we in the US live under.

    Very good point.
    Democratic Republic is the way to go. Best system out there for the preservation of rights and liberty. However, you have to keep it. You have to keep it. You have to keep it! This **** doesn't hold on to itself. If left alone, government will rig the system such that the People become removed and you end up with Oligarchy (which I would argue is closer to our current form of government than Republic). If you don't pay attention, if you don't vote, if you don't research, if you don't participate, if you aren't prepared to kick it up to the next level should it need to be; you will lose the Republic. And you will find yourself slaves on the land your forefathers conquered.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #75
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Democratic Republic is the way to go. Best system out there for the preservation of rights and liberty. However, you have to keep it. You have to keep it. You have to keep it! This **** doesn't hold on to itself. If left alone, government will rig the system such that the People become removed and you end up with Oligarchy (which I would argue is closer to our current form of government than Republic). If you don't pay attention, if you don't vote, if you don't research, if you don't participate, if you aren't prepared to kick it up to the next level should it need to be; you will lose the Republic. And you will find yourself slaves on the land your forefathers conquered.
    Very well said: thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Kids who want to end our rights as a stupid reaction to a traumatic event shouldn't be cut any slack. Can you imagine the outcry if some kids who say were victimized by predatory priests came out and demanded laws banning homosexual sex?

  6. #76
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I never said that those presdients were not good men; Grant was actually a miserable failure and an acute alcoholic. Both Lincoln and Roosevelt were much more liberal than the curretn conservative base will admit: that's why they never bring those guys up. What I have said numerous times, is that my respect for the Republican stopped at Dwight Eisenhower. Since Dwight Eisnhower, the Republicans have done nothing that added up to any good whatsoever in the way of governance. Therefore, I maintain my argument that the Republican party has zero to run on. That's why they spend so much time just running other people down! Imean; think about it: have you ever wondered why the Republicans don't just match good deeds head to head in their campaigns? Because they have no good deeds to run on, that's why. At the very least, Obama succeeded where Truman left off in opening the door to health care reform. Where were the Republicans while all this was going on?

    Obama is no hero of mine; of that you can be sure -- but he's not a Republican drawn from today's Republican field either. Romney is going to get hammered, only becasue he's a Republican; I mean as Republicans go, look at the record he's follwing!

    Hey, I sympathize with you; I'd like nothing better than to see the Republicans proveably change their agenda, their tactics and actually prove to this country thay have our best interests at heart.
    Yeah. I understand that. My point is still regardless of who's to blame, our government is not very efficient. And that is the main cause of our problem in this country in inefficient government with mostly greedy people in charge. It's the main reason I identify as a libertarian. I don't want government managing my life because it can't even seem to manage itself.
    "Sometimes we must look beyond what we want to do what's best."

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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krasche View Post
    Yeah. I understand that. My point is still regardless of who's to blame, our government is not very efficient. And that is the main cause of our problem in this country in inefficient government with mostly greedy people in charge. It's the main reason I identify as a libertarian. I don't want government managing my life because it can't even seem to manage itself.
    There's also the matter of scale. A representative with a thousand constituents has a significantly different relationship with those constituents than a representative with a million. When a congressman represents 700,000 people, in what sense can we really say that a government is in any real way a representative republic. If a representative doesn't personally know his constituents and their concerns, and they don't personally know him, his history, and his character, then you get into a situation where mass media is substituted for personal relationships.

    A representative republic cannot exceed a certain scale and still retain its democratic character.

  8. #78
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krasche View Post
    Yeah. I understand that. My point is still regardless of who's to blame, our government is not very efficient. And that is the main cause of our problem in this country in inefficient government with mostly greedy people in charge. It's the main reason I identify as a libertarian. I don't want government managing my life because it can't even seem to manage itself.
    I understand your point, and I would ask then; so who are going to vote for and why? I'm a regsitered non partisan and I have voted Democratic since Ronald Reagan for the very reasons I've stated above. In my view those who throw away their own interests by voting Republican are only contributing to their own misery. The Republican propoganda pushes a phony patriotism and then sets policies whereby they place their bets with our flesh and blood. And then of course, we have to pay for the clean up: i.e. the crash of 2008, the Iraq war etc etc etc; they have to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Kids who want to end our rights as a stupid reaction to a traumatic event shouldn't be cut any slack. Can you imagine the outcry if some kids who say were victimized by predatory priests came out and demanded laws banning homosexual sex?

  9. #79
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Very well said. I'd be interested to know in what you think we do live in.
    A demoractic republic, as we have always had under the U.S. constitution.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Who's the seller?

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