View Poll Results: Is the USA a Democracy For Sale?

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  • Yes

    34 82.93%
  • No

    5 12.20%
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    2 4.88%
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Thread: Is American Democracy For Sale?

  1. #21
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    ttwtt78640's Avatar
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I agree. But a huge problem is that the institutions are put in place to give the wealth an advantage. Lobbying has become basically legal bribery.
    Exactly. Those in DC get voting instructions along with campaign cash. Should there votes so enrage their state/district that they get the boot in the next election, then the powers that control them offer them a back-up "after office" job that keeps them "in the game", just in a different (perhaps lobbying) position. Example: Newt Gingrich.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #22
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    it is for sale almost everywhere including turkey.....but that is not democracy which is for sale ,people's honor.in a democracy it cant be sold.
    Last edited by Medusa; 05-30-12 at 08:04 PM.
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  3. #23
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    That's not the fault of democracy. The problem is that we are trying to operate a democratic republic on a scale that is completely unworkable. A republic has a natural size, and our republic ought to have undergone mitosis many, many times in order to keeps its republican character. You can't govern hundreds of millions of people with a republican form of government, well not and have any meaningful representative democracy. Right now a congressman represents about 700,000 people. If we had had this sort of representation a the founding of the country, congress would have had 5 representatives. That is not a republican government, it is an empire ruled by an aristocracy, which is what we have now.
    I disagree with you 150%: democracy has failed. Democracy as a social contstruct has allowed itself to be put up to the highest bidder. This has ended in disaster for this country every time. What has happened is that the aristocracy has purchased the suppression of the democratic process in this country, and such supression has been molded to fit into The Constitution (by the lawyers hired to do it), and then the Supreme Court rubber stamps it.

    And there ya' go.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  4. #24
    Student Krasche's Avatar
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Very well said. But, aren't you sort of siding against you own political philospohy here? It's about liberty right? Anybody should have the liberty to do what you've just said, so it's really not about what's goood for the country; that's "collectivism" as some are wont to say. It's about whatever one person can do for for himself; right?
    Never said I agree or disagree with it, I'm just simply stating what it is.

    Now if you're asking about my political beliefs, I believe in small government. I do not believe in heavy regulations, or laws that prevent a person from living their life as they see fit. I believe in the constitutional freedoms of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness guaranteed to us by our forefathers. Those freedoms cannot be attained with large government like we have today.
    "Sometimes we must look beyond what we want to do what's best."

  5. #25
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    it is for sale almost everywhere including turkey.....but that is not democracy which is for sale ,people's honor.in a democracy it cant be sold.
    It can be bought though. The voting patterns of one getting 100% gov't support and the voting patterns of one paying 33% of their hard earned pay to provide that gov't support are likey to be far different indeed. We are fast approaching more gov't benefit getters that gov't benefit givers (taxpayers). Once that happens the game of democracy is over, for sure.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #26
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krasche View Post
    Never said I agree or disagree with it, I'm just simply stating what it is.

    Now if you're asking about my political beliefs, I believe in small government. I do not believe in heavy regulations, or laws that prevent a person from living their life as they see fit. I believe in the constitutional freedoms of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness guaranteed to us by our forefathers. Those freedoms cannot be attained with large government like we have today.
    I don't want to go off track; I understand your Libertarian philosophy. I just though it strange, that a fact as you stated it with regard to deomcracy for sale; as such, does seem to clash with your philosophy, no?
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  7. #27
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I disagree with you 150%: democracy has failed. Democracy as a social contstruct has allowed itself to be put up to the highest bidder. This has ended in disaster for this country every time. What has happened is that the aristocracy has purchased the suppression of the democratic process in this country, and such supression has been molded to fit into The Constitution (by the lawyers hired to do it), and then the Supreme Court rubber stamps it.

    And there ya' go.
    Thus we end up having a choice between Obama and Obama-lite (Romney). Both see gov't solutions to all problems and both see borrow and spend as acceptable 'during hard times' and neither will cut spending/raise taxes (in any combination) anywhere near the 40% required to achieve budget balance. No they can't!
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 05-30-12 at 08:24 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #28
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    it is for sale almost everywhere including turkey.....but that is not democracy which is for sale ,people's honor.in a democracy it cant be sold.
    This kind of thing is actually what started WWI.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  9. #29
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I don't want to go off track; I understand your Libertarian philosophy. I just though it strange, that a fact as you stated it with regard to deomcracy for sale; as such, does seem to clash with your philosophy, no?
    Of course it does. However, just because i dont like it doesn't mean it isn't the truth.
    "Sometimes we must look beyond what we want to do what's best."

  10. #30
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    Re: Is American Democracy For Sale?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Thus we end up having a choice between Obama and Obama-lite (Romney). Both see gov't solutions to all problems yet both see borrow and spend as acceptable 'during hard times' and niether will cut spending/raise taxes (in any combination) anywhere near the 40% required to acheive balance. No they can't!
    I agree. The difference however, and why Obama will win this year, is that he's not a Republican.

    BTW can you show me where Obam has gone ona borrowing spree; I think I missed that.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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