• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

For Veterans and Military personnel only.[W:651]

For Veterans and Military personnel only.


  • Total voters
    51
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

You do know that I won't let you avoid the fact that you claim to be an anti-war crusader yet vote for a warmonger right? It's not going to happen. One of two things will need to happen for me to stop doing that. A) Admit you are a hypocrite B) Admit you're not as anti-war as you claim.

Since I am not a libertarian, I do no believe there is a perfect human, or fairybook utopia. In the real world we much choose the better of choices. If you think I am a hypocrite for not choosing the fairybook utopia option, so be it.


Democrats repeatedly voted for the funding of the Iraq War. Simple as that. You can act like this was a partisan issue all you want. It wasn't.

The Democrats did not cut off funding to troops that all but 7 of the Republicans voted to put in harms way, that is correct, and you can spin it any which way you want MT, but you can't change the fact that a majority of Democrats voted against authorization of force in Iraq.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Afghanistan is not Vietnam.

No it isn't. Nor is it WWII. Or Korea. Or any other war we've been in. But,it is a war against a country that didn't attack us. Not as reckless and crazy as Iraq, as OBL was there. But something different for us. At least in it's blatant disregard appearences.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

You do know that I won't let you avoid the fact that you claim to be an anti-war crusader yet vote for a warmonger right? It's not going to happen. One of two things will need to happen for me to stop doing that. A) Admit you are a hypocrite B) Admit you're not as anti-war as you claim.


Democrats repeatedly voted for the funding of the Iraq War. Simple as that. You can act like this was a partisan issue all you want. It wasn't.

That makes them complicent, but not the decider. Bush alone decided to invade Iraq. He was given permission to decide. And with elections on the line, democrats weren't willing to have soldiers not being funded on their back. So, while they do not escape contempt, those who blame Bush are right to do so.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

No it isn't. Nor is it WWII. Or Korea. Or any other war we've been in. But,it is a war against a country that didn't attack us. Not as reckless and crazy as Iraq, as OBL was there. But something different for us. At least in it's blatant disregard appearences.
Point is, one does not simply compare OIF to Vietnam and expect a real debate.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

That makes them complicent, but not the decider. Bush alone decided to invade Iraq. He was given permission to decide. And with elections on the line, democrats weren't willing to have soldiers not being funded on their back. So, while they do not escape contempt, those who blame Bush are right to do so.
And my blaming the Dems is right as well. So why waste the bandwidth with this post? Does the lookout in the robbery not go to jail too if he shares in the spoils?
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Excerpts from Mitt Romney on war and peace:

It was the right decision to go into Iraq

"It was the right decision to go into Iraq. I supported it at the time; I support it now. It was not well managed in after the takedown of Saddam Hussein and his military. That was done brilliantly, an extraordinary success. But in the years that followed, we were undermanaged, underprepared, underplanned, understaffed, and then we come into the phase that we have now. The plan that Bush and General Petraeus put together is working. It’s changing lives there. Perhaps most importantly, it’s making sure that al Qaeda and no other group like them is becoming a superpower, if you will, in the communities, and having a safe haven from which they launch attacks against us. It’s critical for us. The most important issue is what do we do now, and their just run and retreat regardless of the consequences is going to be a real problem for them when they face a debate with a Republican on the stage."

Source: 2008 GOP debate in Boca Raton Florida , Jan 24, 2008


Leave Afghanistan when generals on the ground say so

"Q: [to Huntsman]: What is the earliest you think our 90,000 troops in Afghanistan should be brought home?

HUNTSMAN: The end of 2013.

ROMNEY: Well, we want to bring our troops home as soon as we possibly can. The commanders are saying they think 2014 is a better date. If I'm president, I will inform myself based upon the experience of the people on the ground that are leading our effort there. I want to make sure that we hand off the responsibility to an Afghan security force that is capable of maintaining the sovereignty of their nation from the Taliban. I don't want to do something that would put in jeopardy the hard earned success which we've had there. And I would bring our troops home as soon as we possibly can, of course, based upon my own experience there, informing myself of what's happening there and listening to the commanders on the ground.

HUNTSMAN: We also deferred to the commanders on the ground in about 1967, during the Vietnam War, and we didn't get very good advice then."

Source: WMUR 2012 GOP New Hampshire debate , Jan 7, 2012



"Q: Osama bin Laden is dead. We've been in Afghanistan for ten years. Isn't it time to bring our combat troops home from Afghanistan?

ROMNEY: It's time for us to bring our troops home as soon as we possibly can, consistent with the word that comes to our generals that we can hand the country over to the Afghan military to defend themselves from the Taliban. I think we've learned some important lessons in our experience in Afghanistan. I want those troops to come home based upon not politics, not based upon economics, but instead based upon the conditions on the ground determined by the generals. But I also think we've learned that our troops shouldn't go off and try and fight a war of independence for another nation. Only the Afghanis can win Afghanistan's independence from the Taliban.

Q: Congressman Paul, do you agree with that decision?

PAUL: Not quite. I make the decisions. I tell the generals what to do. I'd bring them home as quickly as possible."

Source: 2011 GOP primary debate in Manchester NH , Jun 13, 2011


"It was the right decision to go into Iraq

It was the right decision to go into Iraq. I supported it at the time; I support it now. It was not well managed in after the takedown of Saddam Hussein and his military. That was done brilliantly, an extraordinary success. But in the years that followed, we were undermanaged, underprepared, underplanned, understaffed, and then we come into the phase that we have now. The plan that Bush and General Petraeus put together is working. It’s changing lives there. Perhaps most importantly, it’s making sure that al Qaeda and no other group like them is becoming a superpower, if you will, in the communities, and having a safe haven from which they launch attacks against us. It’s critical for us. The most important issue is what do we do now, and their just run and retreat regardless of the consequences is going to be a real problem for them when they face a debate with a Republican on the stage.

Source: 2008 GOP debate in Boca Raton Florida , Jan 24, 2008

Mitt Romney on War & Peace
 
Last edited:
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

And my blaming the Dems is right as well. So why waste the bandwidth with this post? Does the lookout in the robbery not go to jail too if he shares in the spoils?

Because the blame isn't equal. Bush was the sole decider. He presented an incomplete case to congress. And play lose with the facts. Trying to skate around that by include democrats is a cheat.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Because the blame isn't equal. Bush was the sole decider. He presented an incomplete case to congress. And play lose with the facts. Trying to skate around that by include democrats is a cheat.


IOW...as usual...ad infinitum.... IT'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

IOW...as usual...ad infinitum.... IT'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT

Iraq is. There is no honest way around that.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

IOW...as usual...ad infinitum.... IT'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT
Not entirely Bush....his handler Cheney spoon fed him the "deficits don't matter" pablum.
Only an idiot thinks we can lower taxes and start wars at the same time without serious damage to the economy, and congress was, and is, full of willful idiots....
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Not entirely Bush....his handler Cheney spoon fed him the "deficits don't matter" pablum.
Only an idiot thinks we can lower taxes and start wars at the same time without serious damage to the economy, and congress was, and is, full of willful idiots....

there is plenty of blame to go around for Iraq. only an idiot (or rabid partisan hack) truly believes that it was all Bush's fault
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Thank God we went into Iraq.......We killed a vicious dictator and his 2 sons that murdered hundred of thousands of his own people........Truth be told at the time everyone wanted to take him out.....Everyone thought he had WMD..........Its easy to sit back and be a Monday Morning QB. At least we have a republic based government there and given them a chance............We also don't have to worry about that country being a rogue nation .......I mourn the people we lost there with my whole heart but sadly in a war people die...........
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Thank God we went into Iraq.......We killed a vicious dictator and his 2 sons that murdered hundred of thousands of his own people........Truth be told at the time everyone wanted to take him out.....Everyone thought he had WMD..........Its easy to sit back and be a Monday Morning QB. At least we have a republic based government there and given them a chance............We also don't have to worry about that country being a rogue nation .......I mourn the people we lost there with my whole heart but sadly in a war people die...........

my problem with Iraq is not that we went, it was that we stayed too long.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

my problem with Iraq is not that we went, it was that we stayed too long.

It wasn't easy, no one thought that the Iraqi mititary was so bad...........We finished the job and gave the Iraqis a chance........I am a Vietnam Vet and thank God we did not cut and run like we did there.......We would have probably had to go back in 5 years and finish the job.....
 
Last edited:
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

my problem with Iraq is not that we went, it was that we stayed too long.

I think the biggest problem is that we went. Once we went, the damage was done. There was no easy or even profitable way to exit.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

I think the biggest problem is that we went. Once we went, the damage was done. There was no easy or even profitable way to exit.

go in, kick ass, get Saddam and get the hell out. then wait for the next tyrant to pop up, rinse and repeat. It would still have been cheaper (both in $$$ and lives) than hanging around for 8 years of "rebuilding"
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Thank God we went into Iraq.......We killed a vicious dictator and his 2 sons that murdered hundred of thousands of his own people........Truth be told at the time everyone wanted to take him out.....Everyone thought he had WMD..........Its easy to sit back and be a Monday Morning QB. At least we have a republic based government there and given them a chance............We also don't have to worry about that country being a rogue nation .......I mourn the people we lost there with my whole heart but sadly in a war people die...........

Are you kidding me with this ridiculous statement?

First of all, you are correct about it being a dictator who killed a lot of his own people. That is where truth ends and opinion begins.

You realize that we financed Iraq under Hussein right? We gave them money to fight Iran. You say we don't have to worry about a rogue nation? Yes, we do because now parts of Iraq (especially Southern Iraq) are now friendly towards Iran. The government there is still fragile.

Truth REALLY be told...Everyone wanted to go in on the presumption of WMDs and harboring terrorism, but when both were proven to be false...that notion of war faded to a lot of people. When we toppled the Hussein regime, we inadvertently opened the floodgates to terrorism including a man by the name of Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi. We did later kill that man, but he made the lines of terror grow in Iraq.

Also, we did nothing to protect our national security by being there. If anything, we further endangered it with our nation building.

To say it was worth it to go into Iraq is ignorant and foolish.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

It wasn't easy, no one thought that the Iraqi mititary was so bad...........We finished the job and gave the Iraqis a chance........I am a Vietnam Vet and thank God we did not cut and run like we did there.......We would have probably had to go back in 5 years and finish the job.....

I don't remember us going back to "finish the job" in Vietnam. I do remember however us becoming trading partners with communist Vietnam.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

go in, kick ass, get Saddam and get the hell out. then wait for the next tyrant to pop up, rinse and repeat. It would still have been cheaper (both in $$$ and lives) than hanging around for 8 years of "rebuilding"

That wasn't the mission. The mission was to get a new government installed that would agree to a new oil law that would allow big oil back in Iraq again after 35 years of exile. No one expected the Iraqis to fight against us for so long.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

That wasn't the mission. The mission was to get a new government installed that would agree to a new oil law that would allow big oil back in Iraq again after 35 years of exile. No one expected the Iraqis to fight against us for so long.



Can you link to this mission, what was it called, and can you link to the mission statement? Or... just admit you are using archived talking points.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

What makes you think that link is any more credible than you? :ssst:

I think this says it all within that link:

Report of an Independent Task Force
Sponsored by the
James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy of Rice University
and the
Council on Foreign Relations

It is pretty credible, and far from just a wikipedia article.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

What makes you think that link is any more credible than you? :ssst:

Its straight from the horses mouth and 2 years before the 9/11 attack.
 
Back
Top Bottom