For Veterans and Military personnel only.[W:651]

Catawba said:

So you are able to just ignore that the only viable alternative is worse? Sorry, I don't have that ability.

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Catawba said:

You sound exactly like those that deluded themselves into thinking that if we had just been more brutal allowed to kill more than the million we killed in Vietnam we could have won the hearts and minds of the Vietnamese seemingly completely oblivious to the very reason we failed in Vietnam is because we were so brutal.
All we we did in Iraq was remove one corrupt government that kicked Big oil our their country 35 years ago and replace it with a corrupt government that let big oil back in. That's great for big oil but doesn't mean **** to me.
And we are no closer to winning the hearts and minds of the Afghans than we were a decade ago as far as I can tell. The corrupt government we enabled in Afghanistan (the ones we plan to turn over control to) said recently they would side with Pakistan in a conflict with the US.
Mission Accomplished???
If you wish to cast your vote for the worst of the candidates that is your prerogative. I will stick with voting for the better of the candidates.

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roguenuke said:

My first son was born in Tripler, in Oahu. Some refer to the place as "Crippler". I had zero problems and got a lot of care. In fact, when it looked like there was a problem, there were 4 doctors and a couple of nurses in there trying to make sure it was taken care of right. The room I was put in was awesome, even a place for my husband to stay with me and our son. So much help. My second son was born in a civilian hospital. The room was huge but it was unnecessarily so. They didn't let fathers actually stay with the mothers after the baby was born. And they had no idea about their patients. They gave out bags for going home to help new moms, mine was in Spanish. I'm about as white as a person can get.

I've experienced both, and it not that different. In fact, I stayed a couple days longer in Tripler than I did the civilian hospital after the birth, eventhough it was just for observation because of my blood condition.

And I'm telling you I don't see it, at least not more than what I have seen in a civilian hospital/clinic. I have had physical therapy given to me for a foot problem by the Navy. Yet one of my sisters was told by a doctor at a civilian hospital that they couldn't do jack for her sprained/fractured ankle, not even to wrap it up.

From everything I have experienced and heard, the military medical works just as well as civilian medical, particularly when we are talking stateside medical.

And see, I've never had a better place to live in in my life compared to the military housing I live in now. It is great. Completely worth it. And I have lived in places on my own BAH.

Oh, and military housing is run by civilians, not military. The civilians have to follow certain rules, but they are certainly not skimpimg, at least not in San Diego, on the housing.

TRICARE is an insurance option, particularly for dependents. You can choose civilian doctors. They just have to accept TRICARE. Of course, it may cost a little more. For military, it just isn't practical since we have more rules due to our health being a high consideration for the military. (And I know technically I fall under the civilian coverage, I still have to inform my reserve chain of command of any health problems and they have to get their information on it to determine if I am medically ready.)

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Boo Radley said:

Who any one votes is often related to who he runs against. But, let's not pretend Obama is equal to Bush. We really have to be honest and acknowledge differences. I think I did that earlier.

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cpwill said:

Maybe it's a Marine v Navy thing, and they really do give us the sh-- end of the stick.

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cpwill said:

Good point. At least when Bush went to war he intended to win.

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Boo Radley said:

You mean by losing interest in Afghanistan?

CP, don't let that ideology lead you too far down fairyland.

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MarineTpartier said:

Maybe? Come on man. You know better. We get that end of the stick with everything when dealing with the Navy. The Navy holds on to their stupid traditions like the "Chief's Mess" and the "Officer's Mess". Meanwhile, Marine E-7's and above and officers are sitting with their guys.

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They have an elitist mind set between their seniors and junior guys. If you aren't a Chief or above, you're just another peon on the blue side.

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Marines are lower than that to them. Funny part is, they really have no role other than supporting us anymore. Battleships are going away, carriers aren't being built anymore, when's the last time a sub shot something? Yep, that leaves delivering Marines to the battlefield and providing a deck for our pilots to use. The only thing they have left is enforcing no fly zones. Have fun with that. Oh, and a Marine MEU could do that too but we're too busy hooking and jabbing on land.

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MarineTpartier said:

You need to be taking these shots at Catawba, not CP.

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Boo Radley said:

You mean by losing interest in Afghanistan?

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cpwill said:

Bush never announced a timed withdrawal divorced from reality on the ground but wedded to his political convenience in Afghanistan.

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cpwill said:

:shrug: admittedly I've only been on one float - but our SNCO's ate in the Chief's Mess and our Officers ate in the Officers Mess on the Iwo Jima.

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MarineTpartier said:

I notice you offered no counter point to anything I said about the fact that you are a hypocrite because you are going to vote for the warmonger known as President Barack Obama. Instead, you make a poor attempt below at redirecting that towards me. Unlike you, I don't plan to vote for either "viable" candidate that you name. I don't plan to vote for one person who would extend our time in Afghanistan or the other who doubled down on Afghanistan, kills people (including American citizens)with impunity as though he's God Himself, and got involved in another conflict he never should have (Libya). I will tell you this. Nothing you say on this website will ever hold water again IMO. I've heard you rail against war since I've been on here. Now, to find out that you vote for a POTUS that YOU KNOW is going to continue the practice is beyond me. It's like another famous warmonger said, "Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." Well, apparently you are getting fooled again or you are engaging in partisan hackery. I'll bet on the latter.

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You obviously have zero clue how warfare works and I won't enter into debate with you about it. I've done that with you before but that was when I thought you genuinely believed and practiced the rhetoric you spewed forth. Now that I know you're no better than any other militant liberal, I'll ignore your attempt at grandstanding by showing a picture of a little girl you probably had no clue about until the story ran that she turned 40 recently.
Also your big oil comment is funny seeing as the guy you are voting for did the same thing in Libya.

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Catawba said:

I am voting for the least warmongering candidate that has a chance of winning. If you choose to vote for a non-viable candidate and risk the election of the most warmongering candidate, that is your prerogative, as I said before.

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Catawba said:

There was no unilateral invasion and decade long occupation of Libya that I am aware of. I was aware of the napalming of civilians when it happened, that's why I joined with the Vietnam Veterans Against the War in blocking the main entrance to Wright Patterson AFB.

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Boo Radley said:

You're mistaken. Bush allowed the Iraqis to name it, and Obama kept that agreement.

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MarineTpartier said:

That is by order of your MEU CO. The Navy chow guys divvy the chow up to feed the SNCO's/Officers in the mess's provided by the ship. In other words, they wouldn't have enough chow in in Peasant Chowhall if all of the Nobles ate there. I am speaking of on Marine bases and the like. You don't see all of that closed off, Gunny's Mess or Officer's Mess crap. The most you'll see is a Staff and O deck in the chowhall which is nothing more than a group of tables that Staff and O sit at. Even that has gone away from what I've seen. I know the ones at Lejeune are gone.

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cpwill said:

I haven't eaten at a chow hall in Lejeune since... 2009. I know the chowhalls here on Oki have a SNCO/O room in them.

Interesting, though, that there are ships out there that won't let our Officers on their Officer mess deck. HAH. What a buncha stuck up aristocrat wannabes. I rate my decision not to join the Navy above only my decision not to join the Army.

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Boo Radley said:

You're mistaken. Bush allowed the Iraqis to name it, and Obama kept that agreement.

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MarineTpartier said:

I'm a SNCO and I hate the Staff and O rooms and seperation. I even hate the Staff and O hatch that some units have at their CP. I used to infuriate my 1stSgt when I told the Sgt's and below they could use the "Staff and O" hatch. There's no reason for that crap. SNCO's and especially officers are no better than a young Marine that we rate our own doors/bathrooms/dining area/etc. That was another one that I infuriated other Staff and O with. We had a "Staff and O" head. Well, married guys have nowhere to shower in our CP because the big shower room is the Staff and O shower. This forces them to go to the baracks to shower. Guys in the bricks already have 2 Marines using one shower. They can't afford 3 married dudes coming into their room as well. So I would walk them up there in groups of 7 (there were 8 shower heads) and let them get in the shower. Then I would stand there a minute and stare at the young Lieutenants and the like and dare them to say something. That's the funny part. The staff and o's that want that crap never confront young Marines about it because they know it's wrong. They would rather just post a sign and hope young Marines adhere to it. How bad does it look when a senior guy tells a junior guy "Hey, get out of the shower. Only staff and o can use this. You're just going to have to be dirty." 9 out of 10 leaders won't do that because they know it's wrong. So why not just abolish the whole practice you know?

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MarineTpartier said:

Maybe? Come on man. You know better. We get that end of the stick with everything when dealing with the Navy. The Navy holds on to their stupid traditions like the "Chief's Mess" and the "Officer's Mess". Meanwhile, Marine E-7's and above and officers are sitting with their guys. They have an elitist mind set between their seniors and junior guys. If you aren't a Chief or above, you're just another peon on the blue side. Marines are lower than that to them. Funny part is, they really have no role other than supporting us anymore. Battleships are going away, carriers aren't being built anymore, when's the last time a sub shot something? Yep, that leaves delivering Marines to the battlefield and providing a deck for our pilots to use. The only thing they have left is enforcing no fly zones. Have fun with that. Oh, and a Marine MEU could do that too but we're too busy hooking and jabbing on land.

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MarineTpartier said:

Maybe? Come on man. You know better. We get that end of the stick with everything when dealing with the Navy. The Navy holds on to their stupid traditions like the "Chief's Mess" and the "Officer's Mess". Meanwhile, Marine E-7's and above and officers are sitting with their guys. They have an elitist mind set between their seniors and junior guys. If you aren't a Chief or above, you're just another peon on the blue side. Marines are lower than that to them. Funny part is, they really have no role other than supporting us anymore. Battleships are going away, carriers aren't being built anymore, when's the last time a sub shot something? Yep, that leaves delivering Marines to the battlefield and providing a deck for our pilots to use. The only thing they have left is enforcing no fly zones. Have fun with that. Oh, and a Marine MEU could do that too but we're too busy hooking and jabbing on land.

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cpwill said:

There you are mistaken. The politically pressure in 2006 / 2007 was to begin a phased withdrawal, not Surge troops and take the fight out to the streets. You will recall you were an opponent of the Surge then, and you may even recall (I sure do) you touting Harry Reid saying it was a failure before it even began. The withdrawal from Iraq was only driven by political events at the very end, when the current administration proved itself incompetent enough that it couldn't even negotiate a simple SOFA treaty.

In contrast, when the ISAF commander asked Obama to allow him to surge troops, Obama dithered for 6 months, and then gave him less than the minimum number of necessary troops, while tying it to a politically determined withdrawal timeline, divorced from events on the ground. The instant Obama put out a timeline, every Taliban member on the ground knew they only had to wait until a certain date, and every Afghan farmer knew it too. That's death to a counterinsurgency effort, where the high ground is the populace.

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OscarB63 said:

if that is correct, how can Obama take credit for pulling troops out of iraq? all he did was not **** up something bush and the iraqis set in motion

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roguenuke said:

Carriers aren't being built anymore? Bull! We are currently building the Ford class carrier, which is a much better designed carrier than the Nimitz class. Due to be finished in 2014/2015.

And your pilots aren't the main ones flying off Navy carriers to provide air support, ours are.

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