View Poll Results: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

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Thread: For Veterans and Military personnel only.[W:651]

  1. #781
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    He had the idea first, and then came to us. The argument here is whether we went to him. We did not. The idea was his and that was good fortune for us.


    The New Counterinsurgency Field Manual was written in 2006

    Based off of lessons we had learned from the 1880's through the 1920's and then demonstrated Proof of Concept in Vietnam. Generals Odierno and Gurganus were flying out to the Syrian border to bring back the leadership in 2006, when we began shaping efforts. Nor was this all about Sattar. Remember, Counterinsurgency is local.

    He had the idea first? Man, this has been part of Marine Corps doctrine for 90 years.

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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post


    The New Counterinsurgency Field Manual was written in 2006

    Based off of lessons we had learned from the 1880's through the 1920's and then demonstrated Proof of Concept in Vietnam. Generals Odierno and Gurganus were flying out to the Syrian border to bring back the leadership in 2006, when we began shaping efforts. Nor was this all about Sattar. Remember, Counterinsurgency is local.

    He had the idea first? Man, this has been part of Marine Corps doctrine for 90 years.
    Why do you think this rebutts anything? It's kind of silly for you to keep presenting it. This doesn't change that they had the idea before we did anything at all. We were nto part of it. I'm sorry CP, but you are simply off base and wrong on this.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #783
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Why do you think this rebutts anything? It's kind of silly for you to keep presenting it. This doesn't change that they had the idea before we did anything at all. We were nto part of it. I'm sorry CP, but you are simply off base and wrong on this.


    The Just-So fallacy. Unsurprising.

  4. #784
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Why do you think this rebutts anything? It's kind of silly for you to keep presenting it. This doesn't change that they had the idea before we did anything at all. We were nto part of it. I'm sorry CP, but you are simply off base and wrong on this.
    Actually, your own post says he got the idea after getting initial support from Americans which enabled his popularity, which enabled him doing anything about his idea.

    So, what came first, the chicken or the egg? Here's a hard-line fact, Boo, the awakening would not have happened without US support, regardless of who's friggin idea it was.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The Anbar Awakening was largely a grassroots Iraqi initiative to replace the provincial government with an emergency government led by the Awakening leadership. Police recruitment and partnering with the United States were means to that end.

    (Snip)

    As Sheikh Sattar was successful in gaining U.S. support in police recruitment, his popularity and influence grew. And as the Anbar Awakening in Ramadi was successful and gained more U.S. support, his vision of the Awakening also grew. He started talking about expanding the Awakening beyond Anbar and even Iraq, envisioning it as a way of changing the Sunni world.

    (snip)

    If the Awakening leadership were able to tap into that power and use it to expel al Qaeda from Anbar, they would be able to claim that they had conquered an enemy the strongest military in the world could not defeat—negating the argument that they were collaborating with the Americans.

    (snip)

    U.S. support for the Awakening changed, though, in February 2007, when General Petraeus replaced General George Casey and first heard about tribal movement. In an effort to expand the influence of the Awakening, General Petraeus started the Sons of Iraq program for operations in Diyala and Baghdad, usually paying Sunni tribesmen in al Qaeda– infested areas to work as paramilitaries with the hope that someday they would be integrated into the Ministry of the Interior. Initially, the ethnosectarian parties in the government agreed to integrate the Anbar Awakening fighters into the ministry because they were from a homogeneous Sunni province that was a former al Qaeda sanctuary. (My note: It had already started, now we take advantage)

    (Snip)

    The surge did not have a role in the Anbar Awakening. Surge troops that came to Anbar in 2007 were not seen as useful, other than on the eastern border with Baghdad where the ISF acted as a sectarian militia. In fact, U.S. troops in general were not seen as useful even before the surge.

    http://www.ndu.edu/press/lib/images/...uri_Jensen.pdf
    I bring this up again Mac because you are confused. Read it again. This was about police recuritment. This was not about the surge. The surge came sometime later. Why is it so hard for you guys to be accurate and on point?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #786
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I bring this up again Mac because you are confused. Read it again. This was about police recuritment. This was not about the surge. The surge came sometime later. Why is it so hard for you guys to be accurate and on point?
    You are the one who is confused. What we are saying is that this article is wrong, not least because it apparently thinks that "the Surge" is defined as "having more people".

  7. #787
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    (Snip)

    As Sheikh Sattar was successful in gaining U.S. support in police recruitment, his popularity and influence grew. And as the Anbar Awakening in Ramadi was successful and gained more U.S. support, his vision of the Awakening also grew. He started talking about expanding the Awakening beyond Anbar and even Iraq, envisioning it as a way of changing the Sunni world.

    (snip)
    Seriously, read.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  8. #788
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Seriously, read.
    he'll just move the goalposts again. He's moved thus far from "The Surge Was Not A Success" to "It Was Someone Else's Idea, So Not A Success" to "Someone Else Also Had The Idea, So Not A Success". Sooner or later he's going to argue that the fact that counterinsurgency doctrine calls for local forces means that the presence of local forces means counterinsurgency doctrine is failing.


    All along, I've tried to tell him: It wasn't Iraqis. It wasn't Americans. It was both of them working together. Just as the Doctrine calls for. Trying to split one off and give them the credit is like arguing which blade of scissors is doing the cutting.

  9. #789
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Seriously, read.
    You know I actually addressed that. If you don;t knwo or understand that, you may want to make my response larger and bolder.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #790
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    he'll just move the goalposts again. He's moved thus far from "The Surge Was Not A Success" to "It Was Someone Else's Idea, So Not A Success" to "Someone Else Also Had The Idea, So Not A Success". Sooner or later he's going to argue that the fact that counterinsurgency doctrine calls for local forces means that the presence of local forces means counterinsurgency doctrine is failing.


    All along, I've tried to tell him: It wasn't Iraqis. It wasn't Americans. It was both of them working together. Just as the Doctrine calls for. Trying to split one off and give them the credit is like arguing which blade of scissors is doing the cutting.
    Don't piss me off with disingenuous misrepresentations again cp. No one has argued the surge was just numbers. What is argued is that he thought of the awakening all by his self and the help with police recuritment was not part of the surge. The surge was not yet active in any form when he came up with it. Now you will dodge and try to pretend you don't understand what is being said. But I've linked information directely related to what was done and when it was done. You've merely spouted off at the mouth and then linked something not responsive to what is being said.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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