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For Veterans and Military personnel only.[W:651]

For Veterans and Military personnel only.


  • Total voters
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Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Thanks. I pointed to The Gamble earlier. The Book explains a lot rather well I think.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

It doesn't mean we got lucky. Taking advantage of local "awakenings" is part of a policy that predates the Iraq invasion. Regardless, it wouldn't have happened without us support, in this case.

Agian, no one argues we were not wise. And there may well be a mutual need arrangment. That means we wouldn't have succeeded without them and them without us. But, the fact remains, we cannot take credit for the awakening.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Bingo. To go from "Iraqi's didn't like AQI already" to "US Policies had little to do with Iraq's violence reduction" is ludicrous. Both Iraqi and American forces were necessary, as all of Boo's own sources have shown. He just doesn't want to admit to the implications because he unfortunately chose a foolish position, and now feels obligated to continue defending it.

Hey Boo, here's a question, if Obama thinks that the Surge is a failure, and the doctrine doesn't work, why did he order one in Afghanistan?

Don't misrepresent again CP. The point was and remains that we needed the awakening and it was not part of the surge, and that without that awakening, we'd have had much harder sledding. In fact, the surge most likely would have failed. But, what we KNOW is that the Awakening came first,without our prodding and we merely and wisely took advantage.


As for Obama, try to think more logically and honestly. He clearly demonstrated trepidation. The discussions were long. It was not a matter of himm saying that worked so well guys, let's do it again. In fact, he asked for some assurances, which could not be given. So, you misrepresent that situation as well.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

America bashing at it's "finest"...

There's that poor nation esteem rearing it's ugly head again. When some lose a debate on facts, they resort to this type of thing becasue they don't believe in the country enough to be honest. :coffeepap
 
I've never understood all the hype about marines being such "badasses".
My roommates in Airborne school were two Force Recon Marines and Ranger.

The Marines were not any more bad ass than we were, they just liked to wear it on their sleeve.

Its all about the brainwashing they receive.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Moderator's Warning:
AS much as I enjoy and engage in interservice banter, let's move back to the thread topic please.

Just saw this (I move chronologically through a thread)

My bad on the above two posts.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

So its two pictures?

I grew up outside of Camp Lejune. I've seen fat ass Marines.

I was in the Army. I've seen fat ass soldiers.

There are fat asses everywhere.

Might want to check that out on snopes big guy.

LOL. You seem a bit worried, my friend. No bother. My father and brother was/is Army. Brother just got back from third year long tour from Afghanistan. Dad was career Army with two tours in Viet Nam. Being an Army brat born in '56, I grew up with Viet Nam as a background to my childhood.

Still, it is funny to see you so worked up about it. As for the snopes story, thanks for the info: snopes.com: Stabbed Marine
 
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Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Agian, no one argues we were not wise. And there may well be a mutual need arrangment. That means we wouldn't have succeeded without them and them without us. But, the fact remains, we cannot take credit for the awakening.

There's that poor nation esteem rearing it's ugly head again. When some lose a debate on facts, they resort to this type of thing becasue they don't believe in the country enough to be honest. :coffeepap

Well, I'm not losing the debate here. Just noting your tendency to blame America at any chance and deny any positive attributed to it.

The awakening simply would have gone nowhere without US support whether or not the Awakening assisted US/UN goals.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Well, I'm not losing the debate here. Just noting your tendency to blame America at any chance and deny any positive attributed to it.

The awakening simply would have gone nowhere without US support whether or not the Awakening assisted US/UN goals.

Like I said, poor nation self esteem. The argument is not what the awakening would or would not have done without the US eventually lending a hand. I concede it is likely both needed each other, and I commend the wisdom of our leaders to take advantage of it. But the fact is that we did not start the awakening, nor did we come up with the idea. They did. And we were lucky that they did.

Some lack such national esteem that they can't give credit where credit is due and want to say that all good is theirs and all bad someone elses. In case you're confused, you and CP would belong to that group. ;)
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Like I said, poor nation self esteem. The argument is not what the awakening would or would not have done without the US eventually lending a hand. I concede it is likely both needed each other, and I commend the wisdom of our leaders to take advantage of it. But the fact is that we did not start the awakening, nor did we come up with the idea. They did. And we were lucky that they did.

Some lack such national esteem that they can't give credit where credit is due and want to say that all good is theirs and all bad someone elses. In case you're confused, you and CP would belong to that group. ;)


I never claimed it was our idea. However, in the interest if giving credit where it is due, realize that the awakening would still be asleep without the US and that taking advantage of "awakenings" is part of US doctrine.

Keep hatin'
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

I never claimed it was our idea. However, in the interest if giving credit where it is due, realize that the awakening would still be asleep without the US and that taking advantage of "awakenings" is part of US doctrine.

Keep hatin'

If you weren't claiming it was our idea, you would not have been agreeing with CP or disputing what I said. :coffeepap
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

If you weren't claiming it was our idea, you would not have been agreeing with CP or disputing what I said. :coffeepap

You should read the posts. I routinely said that without the US the awakening would have gone nowhere. Perhaps I should have said "a more closely agree with CP", but the point remains, he is mostly right and you are mostly wrong.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

You should read the posts. I routinely said that without the US the awakening would have gone nowhere. Perhaps I should have said "a more closely agree with CP", but the point remains, he is mostly right and you are mostly wrong.

No, CP says the US was behind the Awakening. That is what we were debating. As he is completely wrong, and you agree with me, what exactly are you mostly agreeing with? Isn't really that you're having an emotional response and let that influence what you're saying.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

No, CP says the US was behind the Awakening. That is what we were debating. As he is completely wrong, and you agree with me, what exactly are you mostly agreeing with? Isn't really that you're having an emotional response and let that influence what you're saying.

The US is behind the awakening. It would not have happened without US support, as your own source says. :shrug:

The US didn't have to come up with the idea to be the enabling force behind it.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

The US is behind the awakening. It would not have happened without US support, as your own source says. :shrug:

The US didn't have to come up with the idea to be the enabling force behind it.

No. It happened already, before us. It likely would have been less successful. There is a difference there. It may have even failed. But it had already happened, as reported by our generals before congress, but we took advantage. It was smart and wise for us to take advantage, but we did not start it and not behind it (which means we started it). As much as they would not have been successful wihotut our help, the surge would have not been as successful without the Awakening.

You might read CP closer.
 
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