View Poll Results: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

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  • Obama

    35 54.69%
  • Romney

    29 45.31%
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Thread: For Veterans and Military personnel only.[W:651]

  1. #721
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post


    Man, I was in Fallujah in 2007 (hint, that's in Anbar). When we rolled into that city there were M&I events going down on a daily basis, the locals were terrified to leave their houses at night or send their kids to school, and if we were in place for 15 minutes we were getting small arms fire (half an hour and they could bring mortars on-line). Then we moved into the city itself, moved to block and control traffic, set up local forces, trained local forces, paid local forces, moved in to live with local forces in their neighborhoods to provide 24 hour security, and rounded up a bunch of bad guys. Attacks dropped from 200 at the beginning of the year in our AO to 2 by October. M&I stopped. Locals were sending kids to school, opening up markets, by Ramadan they could enjoy staying out late together... I remember one of our terps (a guy out of Baghdad) turning to our boss, with amazement in his voice: "Sir... they're.... happy...."

    The most common question we got was whether or not we were going to stick around long enough to make sure that AQI couldn't take back over. The most effective enemy propaganda campaign we faced were posters by them quoting our own political leadership saying that we were going to abandon the fight, so Iraqi's shouldn't work with us.


    Now before the Surge, I would agree, US troops weren't being employed all that usefully. The idiotic "anti-terrorist" strategy VP Biden wanted us to pursue in Afghanistan wherein we live on big bases and only leave to do raids ensured that we would have poor intelligence and degraded effects. We didn't provide security to the populace (the high ground in a counterinsurgency), and so we basically abandoned them to AQI. But you are sticking your head in the sand.
    I linked it for you. You are missing the point completely. The Awakening was before the surge, and they were not dependent on the surge. We wisely took advantage, but it was not the surge. CP, you're just factually wrong.

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  2. #722
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Well, if you have a problem believing the information from the Executive Branch, perhaps you'll believe the figures directly from DoD.

    Active Duty military force strength as of FY2010:



    There's lots more public information you can find on our armed forces by going to their respective ".mil" websites or DoD's website itself.

    Sidenote: I find it interesting that you'd dismiss the information contained on the President's website where much of it is derived directly from the various branches of government including Congress (i.e., signed legistlation), but it seems you're quick to accept information derived from a civilian's website who very likely receives his information from partisan sources that may not be as reliable (i.e., "The U.S. Navy has only 284 ships today" which is two short of the actual number of warships in our active duty fleet. We have several more in our inactive fleet ready to activate when necessary; always have. But hey, don't let the facts stand in the way of the truth.)
    I find it interesting that you put no stock in actual accounts of people IN the military during the Obama administration but rather take the words of the politicians instead.
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I find it interesting that you put no stock in actual accounts of people IN the military during the Obama administration but rather take the words of the politicians instead.
    This from the individual who puts more faith behind the campaign promises a civilian who isn't even Commander-in-Chief yet than the man who is. But I'll bite...

    Other than Gen. McCrystal, what are the military personnel and the leadership saying that concerns you?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 06-13-12 at 09:55 PM.

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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Using force size as an indicator of President Obama's support for the military is misleading. Normally, the policies of the previous POTUS dictate the size and scope of the military. Its very hard to recruit fast and even harder to boot people once you don't need them anymore. While the military doesn't have a union, its just bad form to kick someone to the curb without some sort of chance to transition. Especially when that person potentially went to war for the country.

    I will ask this question again to everyone. Where is the Scott Walker like outrage against President Obama for the planned hike in contributions military members must make to their medical care? Especially considering the fact that he cannot be considered a "peaceful" POTUS by any stretch. President Bush may have been a warmongerer but at least he gave us the assets we needed and took care of us. President Obama would rather cut funding, still ask the same of the military as before the cuts, and make us pay more for the healthcare we will need from fighting the war he has doubled down on.
    First of all, I was responding to Mac's assessment that the size of the active duty military had decreased under President Obama. That may be the case for the Navy, but not so for the Army, Marines and Air Force.

    Second, I agree with you that policy and strategic implementation of troop forces along with results should be how we judge our Commander-in-Chief. Still, I would argue that if people are volunteering to enlist even while there's still a war going on at the same time that active duty personnel are deciding to remain on active duty at the end of their tours, doesn't that speak well of policy? (And yes, I am aware that tours have been extended for many of our military personnel, but the fact that our combat troops are still volunteering to stay on active duty in spite of this speaks volumns to how correctly aligned military policy apparently has been under Pres. Obama.)

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Hate to tell you this bro but most of those weapons you speak of were procured during the Bush years. 3 years is not enough time to identify a short fall, put it up for bid, have various companies bid on it, have those companies develop prototypes, test all of them (usually 3 or 4), award the contract, then that company produce them en mass, test them again, train trainers on the gear, train the users, then field it. Yes, it takes that long to get a piece of gear to the military. The only exception to that rule that I have seen is the MRAP. It was rapidly pushed to the front of the line. The XM2010 took a year from contract approval to fielding. That's just one step of the process.
    You are correct. Many of the advanced weapons that our troops are using in theater were developed long before Obama took office. But that does not exclude the fact that he has made every effort to equip our troops with such weapons during his tenure. Consider, if you will, the cry for kevlar vest and improved Humvees with better shielding under the chassy and/or equipping with IED detectors. When did those get distributed to combat troops? Took a long time to get those vest to the troops under GW Bush. Obama all but demanded that they get such equipment. SecDef Gates went to the Pentegon and demanded that the new Humvees as described above were built at a rapid pace and shipped to Iraq with hast! This, too, happened under Obama's watch.

    So, yes, policy and decisive action does matter where our active duty forces are concerned. But troop strength and equipment also matter. It's the collectiveness of it all that folks should take into consideration, not just the politics of the moment.

  5. #725
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    So they protested and violence ensued. What's your point?
    In Seattle, protesters dressed in black smashed windows and police pepper-sprayed some in the crowds.
    Attachment 67129198
    Marches turned violent in Oakland and San Francisco, where a protester was throwing what appeared to be bricks and metal rods from the roof of a building into the crowd of demonstrators, reporters, and police - injuring at least one person
    Protesters hit streets for May Day rallies; violence flares in Oakland, Seattle - U.S. News

    I must have missed where it said 10,000 were protesting as they were against the corrupt government in Iraq. Please provide that quote from the article. Thanks!
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  6. #726
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    More likely the invasion enabled it. With Saddam in power, any protest like this would have been met with overwhelming military response, and therefore, probably would have never occured.
    Didn't work out that way in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, and Yemen did it?
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  7. #727
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun View Post
    Agreed. Saddam gassed the Kurds for resisting and brutally put down a post-Gulf War uprising with an estimated 180,000 casualties.
    1991 uprisings in Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    US companies provided the precursor for the illegal mustard gas used. And how many were killed in the US civil war?
    Last edited by Catawba; 06-14-12 at 01:56 AM.
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I guess I see a different point. It seems that all who where there, and in this thread, disagree with you (who wasn't). I'm sure you'll catch up on the interweb, though.

    Interesting.
    All that proves is there are many on the far right responding. The majority of post 9/11 Vets say the war in Iraq wasn't worth it.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #729
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Didn't work out that way in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, and Yemen did it?


    You have no idea why this is ironic, do you?

  10. #730
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    All that proves is there are many on the far right responding. The majority of post 9/11 Vets say the war in Iraq wasn't worth it.
    We're not discussing that one way or the other - we have vets here agreeing with Mac and I that think the war in Iraq wasn't worth it. What is under discussion is whether or not the Surge worked. Even vets such as MarineTPartier who disagree with the move into Iraq agree that, yeah, it worked.

    Boo just doesn't want to admit that because I dunno - I guess he figures he can't give an inch? He took a position before the relevant data was in, and is now stuck in confirmation bias?

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