View Poll Results: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

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  • Obama

    35 54.69%
  • Romney

    29 45.31%
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Thread: For Veterans and Military personnel only.[W:651]

  1. #531
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Iraq was a useless war. Obama did not invade and occupy a country like Bush did.

    Yes, both parties are in bed with the 1%.

    Obana did try to close Gitmo. Failing is a little different than not trying.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well that's interesting - It seems most of McCain's donations are 1/2 to 1/3 of Obama's . Rather the direct opposite of your claim that Both McCain and Obama proposed finance reform in 08. So the big money donors were more even.


    About 2 to 1 it appears, before Obama'a finance reform, tax increase proposals and announcement of spending cuts for the military industrial complex.

    Since that, the big money favors Romney 5 to 1 over Obama this election.

    I consider 2 to 1 more even than 5 to 1.
    Last edited by Catawba; 06-08-12 at 11:57 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #533
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Iraq was a useless war. Obama did not invade and occupy a country like Bush did.
    Libya was useless. Doubling down in Afghan is useless and we are occupying that country like never before. He also has authorized the invasion of air space in Yemen and Pakistan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, both parties are in bed with the 1%.
    Agreed
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Obana did try to close Gitmo. Failing is a little different than not trying.
    Is it though? Isn't the result the same? President Bush tried to do the best thing for the country. Shouldn't you give him a pass?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    About 2 to 1 it appears, before Obama'a finance reform, tax increase proposals and announcement of spending cuts for the military industrial complex.

    Since that, the big money favors Romney 5 to 1 over Obama this election.

    I consider 2 to 1 more even than 5 to 1.
    Do you have proof of this 2 to 1/5 to 1 statement? I haven't seen it. Also, didn't CP just show you that President Obama has more big money donations that Governor Romney?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  5. #535
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Libya was useless. Doubling down in Afghan is useless and we are occupying that country like never before. He also has authorized the invasion of air space in Yemen and Pakistan.
    I did not support Libya. But did think we needed to regain the focus in Afghanistan that Bush threw away. Many liberals felt that way. But I did not support the surge. However, it is what Obama said he do. And none of this is equal in any way to Bush's act in Iraq.

    Agreed

    Is it though? Isn't the result the same? President Bush tried to do the best thing for the country. Shouldn't you give him a pass?
    The distain is more spread. At least he tried. Also, what was wrong wasn't just that Gitmo existed, but the disregard for law and order, and using torture. Also claiming torture wasn't torture. So, Obama did give some improvement. I wanted more, true. But it is merely false that they are equal.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I did not support Libya. But did think we needed to regain the focus in Afghanistan that Bush threw away. Many liberals felt that way. But I did not support the surge. However, it is what Obama said he do. And none of this is equal in any way to Bush's act in Iraq.
    Two big differences. 1) President Bush's strategy in Iraq worked in the end. That country is undeniably better than when we first went in. 2) President Obama tried the same approach in Afghan. The one and only difference is this. We are under NATO control in Afghan. The ROE are different. That's why we have failed there and will continue to fail there.





    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The distain is more spread. At least he tried. Also, what was wrong wasn't just that Gitmo existed, but the disregard for law and order, and using torture. Also claiming torture wasn't torture. So, Obama did give some improvement. I wanted more, true. But it is merely false that they are equal.
    That waterboarding is torture is questionable. I've been waterboarded and, while it sucks, I don't think it's torture. We can get into that another time.
    Gitmo wasn't the center for the disregard or torture. It was the secret prisons that were all around the world. President Obama says he closed those. He didn't. He merely decreased the allowable time that a detainee is allowed to be present in said prisons. These prisons are supposed to be transient stops on the way to Gitmo. Nothing stops the spooks that handle these guys from just transporting them from secret prison to secret prison as long as they don't exceed the allowable time for each stop. So President Obama merely gray area'd that one.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  7. #537
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    to keep beating the same dead horse, we have never elected a "true" conservative....not in the last 50 years, at least....
    What did I say?? Wake up Bill.

    Sadly I believe a true Conservative like Santorum can not be elected,.........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well that's interesting - It seems most of McCain's donations are 1/2 to 1/3 of Obama's . Rather the direct opposite of your claim that Both McCain and Obama proposed finance reform in 08. So the big money donors were more even.



    This is not correct. Some companies may be betting more on Romney than Obama, but the fact remains that Obama's fundraising is indeed concentrated on the 1%, and any discrepancy is in no way similar to the orders of magnitude you are describing.

    According to the Same source, for example, Romney has raised (as of April 30) $97,963,836 12% of which was small individuals. Obama (same date) has raised $217,052,304, 44% of which was small individuals.

    88% of $97,963,836 is..... $86,208,175 for Romney from large donors.
    56% of $217,052,304 is.... $121, 549,290 for Obama from large donors.

    Meaning that Obama actually currently has raised roughly $35,341,114 more than Romney has from large donors.

    Apparently, I misremembered. Here are the figures so far in this election, and what they were total in the '08 election.

    "Individuals who work in the securities and investment industry have given the Romney campaign $8.5 million through the end of April, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics.Over the same time period, Obama has brought in only $3 million from securities and investment workers, and the industry is only the campaign's fifth largest source of funds."

    That's 2.8 to 1 so far in Romney's favor.


    "The absence of Wall Street love is a departure from the norm for the Obama campaign. In 2008, then-Senator Obama raised almost $16 million from Wall Street. John McCain, the Republican nominee, received donations totaling only $9 million."

    The total in '08 was 1.8 to 1 in Obama's favor.

    Wall Street ditches Obama, backs Romney - May. 29, 2012


    We also for the first presidential election have the cover of Citizens United so people can donate anonymously without fear of it exposing their support. So that's a whole funding mechanisms for the 1% that we have never had before.
    Last edited by Catawba; 06-09-12 at 12:44 AM.
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  9. #539
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Two big differences. 1) President Bush's strategy in Iraq worked in the end. That country is undeniably better than when we first went in. 2) President Obama tried the same approach in Afghan. The one and only difference is this. We are under NATO control in Afghan. The ROE are different. That's why we have failed there and will continue to fail there.
    Worked? We refereed a civil war for a decade? What about that is working? For Iraqis, the Sunni Awakening help eased the violance more than anything else (there wasn't anything equvivlent in Afghanstan and that is the big difference). But, we gained next to nothing. We spent a lot for nothing.



    That waterboarding is torture is questionable. I've been waterboarded and, while it sucks, I don't think it's torture. We can get into that another time.
    Gitmo wasn't the center for the disregard or torture. It was the secret prisons that were all around the world. President Obama says he closed those. He didn't. He merely decreased the allowable time that a detainee is allowed to be present in said prisons. These prisons are supposed to be transient stops on the way to Gitmo. Nothing stops the spooks that handle these guys from just transporting them from secret prison to secret prison as long as they don't exceed the allowable time for each stop. So President Obama merely gray area'd that one.
    It is not the least bit questionable. This was one of my major problems with Bush. He tried to frame it as questionable. It isn't. And it doesn't matter who or how many try rationalize what we did. It was torture, and always has been considered torture.

    And while I don't think everythng I think should be stopped has stopped, it is important that we not try to justify evil. There is no gray. It is wrong.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #540
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    About 2 to 1 it appears, before Obama'a finance reform, tax increase proposals and announcement of spending cuts for the military industrial complex.

    Since that, the big money favors Romney 5 to 1 over Obama this election.
    it's cute that you repeat this claim after I've already demonstrated to you that Romney is thus far losing the big money to Obama.


    Ah, reading later I see this:

    "Individuals who work in the securities and investment industry have given the Romney campaign $8.5 million through the end of April, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics.Over the same time period, Obama has brought in only $3 million from securities and investment workers, and the industry is only the campaign's fifth largest source of funds."
    so. You have now moved the goalpost twice. Tell me, is it the 1% that you are trying to avoid? Or specifically people that work in the investment industry? Those two categories are not the same. Furthermore, I have a cousin who was in that industry - he banked around $45K-ish, a year all told. Is he an evil member of the manipulative elite?

    When President Obama uses John Corzine - currently under investigation for "misplacing" people's money to the tune of $1.2 BILLION - as a bundler, does that make you proud? or embarrassed?

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