View Poll Results: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

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    35 54.69%
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Thread: For Veterans and Military personnel only.[W:651]

  1. #361
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    He sent an additional 30,000 troops into Afghanistan.
    After he was told that 40,000 was the minimum necessary to win. Obama tried to split the baby to make the best political decision, either unknowing or uncaring that that is the worst possible military decision.
    Last edited by cpwill; 06-04-12 at 09:01 AM.

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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    win.
    "Winning" is a very tricky term in wars such as these.

    I'd like to know exactly what we're "Winning" over there, because right now it seems like we're pouring treasure and blood into a bottomless pit/

  3. #363
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    "Winning" is a very tricky term in wars such as these.

    I'd like to know exactly what we're "Winning" over there, because right now it seems like we're pouring treasure and blood into a bottomless pit/
    Check out Garmsir these days. We just had a detachment get back from there - 7 months in former Bad Guy Land without a hostile shot fired. In the areas where Marines surged into the South and have been able to actually put COIN into place, it's working. It's just that our resources and available time are probably insufficient for the job at hand. If you want to inkblot, you have to let the ink spread.

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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Check out Garmsir these days. We just had a detachment get back from there - 7 months in former Bad Guy Land without a hostile shot fired. In the areas where Marines surged into the South and have been able to actually put COIN into place, it's working. It's just that our resources and available time are probably insufficient for the job at hand. If you want to inkblot, you have to let the ink spread.
    For how long?

    It's been 10 years, how much more blood and treasure do we squander?

    A fully fledged functioning, stable democracy takes generations to solidify under good circumstances, let alone one with an islamist insurgency hell bent on returning it to the stone age.

    If you define winning as areas being safe enough to put money into to build Afghanistan up using our treasure, rather than spending it at home where it belongs than I don't really know what to say.

    I understand the argument that failed countries allow terrorists safe havens, but than we should be in Somalia as well. I thought we went there to punish the perpetrators of 9/11, not build a nation.

  5. #365
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    After he was told that 40,000 was the minimum necessary to win. Obama tried to split the baby to make the best political decision, either unknowing or uncaring that that is the worst possible military decision.
    I agree. However, Old Navy there was saying he didn't send any, which is false.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  6. #366
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    For how long?
    Well that's sort of the trick - if you put an artificial timeline on it, you kill it. You can win quicker if you demonstrate that you are willing to stay longer. Most Iraqi's expected us to pull out of Iraq after 05-06. When Bush instead announced the Surge, it told the Iraqi tribal leadership afraid of AQI that they had a potential ally and protector, and told AQI that they weren't going to be able to simply count down the months to victory, and may want to start thinking about Plan B) going back home. The following turn-around was amazing. In about a 4-month period I watched Fallujah go from being the Wild West to being Home on the Prairie.

    It's been 10 years, how much more blood and treasure do we squander?
    We've had COIN in place for about 2 and a half years, not 10 - and the troops that were sent in were explicitly too few to fully accomplish the mission, explicitly not given enough time to do so, and had their efforts implicitly hobbled by the Presidents' political needs. Given those restraints, the success that has been achieved in the areas they went into is nothing short of amazing.

    A fully fledged functioning, stable democracy takes generations to solidify under good circumstances, let alone one with an islamist insurgency hell bent on returning it to the stone age.
    Depends on what you mean by functioning stable democracy, I suppose. The goal in Afghanistan is a non-extremist, moderately representative, least corrupt possible government capable of defending itself against the Taliban, AQ, and associated networks such as the Haqanni. If you want a Parliament and modern infrastructure in the sense that India has these things, that's going to take a few more decades. Like 15 or so.

    If you define winning as areas being safe enough to put money into to build Afghanistan up using our treasure, rather than spending it at home where it belongs than I don't really know what to say.

    I understand the argument that failed countries allow terrorists safe havens, but than we should be in Somalia as well. I thought we went there to punish the perpetrators of 9/11, not build a nation.
    What happened in the 1980's after the USSR withdrew and we just left that area of the world to it's own devices? That turn out well for us? If we'd moved in, bombed the crap out of the Taliban, and then moved out, what do you think would have happened?

    The Taliban and AQ would be back in power today, with Pakistans' assistance. And we would be right back where we started, but with a few lives and a lot of money wasted.

    COIN sucks. But it works.
    Last edited by cpwill; 06-04-12 at 09:58 AM.

  7. #367
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dar al Harb View Post
    I do not like liberal/progressives like Obama one bit.

    But AIPAC control our politicians on behalf of Israel.

    And we will never be a Free country again until we disassociate America from that rogue state.

    Obama stood up to What-a-yahoo a few months ago.

    If the President doesn't have to worry about reelection.

    My hope is he will put Israel in it's place for the good of our nation and people.
    For the good of our nation and people? what nation are you talking about? surely not the USA. First thing we should do is stop bribing Arab leaders to "like" us...foreign aid to arab countries is just pouring money down a rat hole...
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dar al Harb View Post
    Israel is Not our 51st state and the Constitution does not say that we are to defend another nation.

    It is not anti-semitic to distance our nation from Israel.

    Just common sense to put America first.
    neither is Saudi Arabia, the country we should have attacked after 9/11.....
    yes, put America first, and Arab contries last...
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Hesent about half of what they needed............I been meaning to ask you, did you send back the money you made in the last 10 years from the Bush Tax cuts..
    sort of....every time I buy gasoline....
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  10. #370
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    Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Sure. You read The Strongest Tribe. Given that you apparently do not understand the differences between "tactics" and "strategy", I'm thinking you meant the latter. Which is still immaterial to the point - President Bush was out to win the war, and President Obama is out to win reelection. That's why Bush made unpopular decisions that supported the war effort, while Obama made decisions that crippled the war effort in order to be popular.



    I think it's hilarious when you say crap like this. As though COIN was just about "sending more dudes". The Iraqi Awakening was part of the Surge, the turning of the populace is COIN. You are arguing that only one blade of scissors actually cuts the paper.

    Oh, and we never utilized enhanced interrogation in Iraq in the first place.



    Either you are all in to win, or you leave. Obama chose neither, but to simply try to split the baby. But half measures are worse than no measures - and sending a bunch of guys to Afghanistan but then giving them an artificial pre-set withdrawal date ensures that there will be no second blade of the scissors. It ensures that every single Afghan on both sides knows that the Americans are leaving on a certain date, and all the Taliban have to do is wait until that date plus one hour.
    We've gone down this path before CP. For the Awaking to be part of the surge, it would have ahd to be our idea. It wasn't. It was the Iraqis idea. You just have this habit of thinking everything that happens good had to be our idea. But, facts are pesky things. Now Lt. Gen. Odierno was smart enough to go with it, and that's a good thing. But stop trying to take credit where credit isn't due.

    And btw, whether Obama or anyone announces a leave time, they still have all the time in the world. What that sentence means is they don't give a **** how long we stay. Move in. They aren't going anywhere.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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